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Quote:

Originally Posted by josh...just josh (Post 3620643)

have any of you guys ever gotten a cleaning jag and patch stuck in your barrel? It seems to happen to me every time I shoot

Yep, happens all the time if i use Black powder in my Hawken. I opted to use smaller patches so the fit wasnt so tight.

I suppose everybody is going to have different opinions and experiences based on their rifles and conditions. I'm not going to write off BH yet, but today was not a great experience

next time only shoot BH209 and dont let others on the range disrupt your shooting. Start with a fresh clean oil free barrel and load up and shoot the first shot. Depending on the heat, you may have to allow the barrel a few minutes to cool down between each shot.

For starters, What loads were you shooting today with the BH209? Did you clean out the flash channel before shooting BH209? American Pioneer leaves a lot of crud in my breech plug flash channel, T7 i'd imagine would be worse. Primers alone cause carbon build up inside of the flash channel, you need to use a drill bit that fits the hole and clean that out every so often.

Just take things one step at a time and go rush into it, things will fall into place soon enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEAD0001 (Post 3620640)

Either I am wrong or you should check your bottles. The bottle of BH I had was not 1#. And I guess I am fortunate because we have a local guy who stocks BP and does not charge that much. So maybe for you the BH is twice as much. Instead of three times more. But that still does not address the other problems people have like the bad hygroscopic properties of the powder. And other things you need to worry about to get it to go off. BP will go off if you do the process properly. And it does not need any special nipples, or special primers, or special breech plugs, or whatever special stuff you need. Heck I have shot BP before when it was wet.

When they start shooting BH-209 in a Gibbs rifle at the 1,000 yard line then I might give it a second look. But then they use BP?? Oh my.

I guarantee you that MZ accuracy is due to the rifle and projectile more than what type of powder you use. They have marketed these whiz-bang powders to shooters. And the shooters fell for it. After all who would pay two or three times as much for powder that does not improve accuracy(over BP). And you still need to clean your rifle?? Now if you did not have to clean your rifle after you shot then that might be worth investigating. But then you would be shooting a Savage with smokeless powder.

I have been around the block with all the different powders available on the market. And with a good projectile and a good rifle you will not be able to out shoot BP in that rig. Tom.

Correct its 10oz and i can get more fps with BH209 per grain SO it equals out. I can use just plain old Win209s $33-36 per 1000 in my Accura and OEM breach plug just fine. I dont have to have any "whiz bang" addon for it to work either.

I can shoot all day and never have to swab. Sometimes i may shoot an entire bottle from 3 guns in one outing.

So for ME it is the best and i dont own a Gibbs but i do have a Pedersoli that shoots BH209 VERY well too. :P

When i can shoot Swiss all day and meet the above criteria or if i buy a White Super 91 i will reevaluate my opinion. ;)

The only bad thing about BH209 is that due to it being so clean you forget how much you go through because youre not stopping to clean it out after a handful of shots. Ive gone through 7 cans so far since i started shooting it. Have to pace myself!

josh...just josh

Sticking a cleaning jag with a patch is not an unheard of thing. A lot of people have done and it will continue to happen, usually to the beginning shooter.

Try making some of these patches to run a patch with they might solve your problem.

When you do feel/find a crud ring, use short strokes back and forth to make your way through the ring.

There really is a learning curve that goes along with shooting BH. I would also suggest that you look into the Lehigh Generation II Knight Breech Plug if you are going to shoot BH. The designe is much more favorable to shooting BH than the Knight NFPJ breech plugs. Plus with the Lehigh I think you can use any primer you want to.

BH is a great powder if you can afford to shoot it and if you learn the learning curve that goes along with it. My problem is that i shoot to much to be a BH user - Between the end of November and the first of this month I have shot 6 lbs of T7. That would have been around 9.5 bottles of BH. That adds up in a hurry.

I would suggest the best thing you could do would be to get a known good sub and shoot it for awhile while you are learning the use of your rifle. I choose not to shoot BP or the Pyro's because of their corrosive issues, yet if you know what you are doing and take care of your rifle corrossion is not an issue.

Hope you get some help to get things going in the right direction for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh...just josh (Post 3620651)

I suppose everybody is going to have different opinions and experiences based on their rifles and conditions. I'm not going to write off BH yet, but today was not a great experience

I havent written of any powder really...except pellets. I cant stand them. The crud ring was always terrible for me and i dont shoot much T7 anymore.

If i had to shoot another powder i would bite the bullet and buy Swiss and tolerate the cleanup time frame. Im not a big T7 fan either but i did get another bottle on sale. I gave away more than i shot.

I want to see if a bore conditioner and the bore shine help the crud ring issue. I used a lot of RemOil in the past and it may have been part of the problem i had with T7.

Gm54-120

Quote:

I would really disagree with that thought. BH is about a grain for grain with T7 until you get to the heavier bullets and then it only achieves around 175 fps more than T7.

I have ran both powders through a chrono on several different occasions and there are tons of chrono information out there to verifiy this.

Here are a couple of examples...

This table is not complete but I think it shows what I am talking about.

This one is complete...

Here is another example

110 Grains Blackhorn 209 - 260-Grain Scorpion PT Gold...........2,044 f.p.s.

110 Grains FFFg Triple Seven - 260-grain Scorpion PT Gold........2,019 f.p.s.

110 Grains Black Mag XP - 260-Grain Scorpion PT Gold.............2,018 f.p.s.

Note: The Knight Extreme Ultimate Slam has a 27" Barrel, with a 26 1/4" working bore.

Another example

So, what kind of velocities do such loads have? The 140-grain charge of Blackhorn 209 that punched the 1-inch group just above and to the left gets the 260-grain Scorpion PT Gold on its way at 2,193 f.p.s. (with 2,774 f.p.e.). Shooting 120-grains of FFFg Triple Seven gets the bullet out of the same rifle at 2,1o6 f.p.s. (with 2,563 f.p.e.). A 130-grain charge of Black Mag XP gets the 260-grain sboted bullet out of the muzzle at 2,128 f.p.s. (with 2,615 f.p.e.).

If you move above a 300 grain bullet then BH becomes more and more efficient to a point that you begin shooting powder out the barrel.

And to be fair these same velocities can reached with real BP shooting about grain for grain if you are shooting Swiss BP...

I sure feel lucky...I stocked up on Goex last year at $11.50 a can...

As far as jags getting stuck down the bore, most are too large...Chuck them up in a drill and turn them down with a file...A proper fitting cleaning patch and jag will go down easily so it pulls the crud out when you pull it back out, not pack it down into the flash channel when going down...

If you want a clean burning powder, go smokeless...

sabotloader

Not vs T7

Vs say Goex or regular (insert brand) black powder or Pyrodex.

Like i said i would shoot Swiss if it met all my needs. It doesnt and cost about the same including fps. if i ever get a White rifle it will probably never see anything but Swiss or high quality black powder.

I got another bottle of T7 and am going to give it another try since it was on sale. Ive read the same article several times and i do shoot mostly heavy for caliber bullets.

BTW the last time i got a BH209 i got it on sale for $24.99 and almost all the subs were within a dollar or two except Swiss which was a bit more. T7 right now is the same price in my area and you have to add in the T7 primer cost for best results. I cant even find Blackmag locally and its in 10oz bottles too. Online pricing is roughly the same minus hazmat.