Dude seriously, get over ourself.

Hey guys I think we can all get along.

Most of these rifles shoot better than we do. That's an excellent group batchief. Your pointing precision is at least 1/2 MOA and the rifle "HAS TO BE BETTER". Did you use the wadcutter "trashcan" for those groups? The wadcutter is an excellent target bullet and a very stable one in spite of the low BC.

When I go to the range I can't get that kind of group. First I don't shoot from a bench, I don't shoot with with bags, and I don't use scopes. I just can't point that precisely (under .5 MOA). Can't do it. No fault of my rifles.

I do have very good sense how well I will shoot while hunting though and that is what I am primarily looking for. What is my limit ... and then the challenge of the hunt is to get within that limit to take the game.

When I account for what I expect my pointing imprecision is, I am impressed though with my groups and am surprised at what a wide range of loads shoot well within the range afforded by my pointing imprecision under field conditions.

Most rifles shoot better than their owners can point. I think your targets say as much about the your abilities and the conditions under which you shot those targets than they do about the rifle itself. Granted one can't do that unless the rifle is precise, but if you compare that to another's targer who isn't as good a pointer then the whole difference may not be the rifle at all but rather the individual shooting the target.

There are are alot of fine muzzleloaders and while I don't own a White, I think I would count it among the best. I've never once read a complaint about a White by its owner, not once. And I can't say that about any other rifle except maybe the knights.

Those shots were from the bench utilizing sandbags. Underclocked designed a bullet he calls the "UC Shorty". I,,as well as a few other White shooters purchased the mould from Lee. This range session was just an attempt to find out whether the bullet would fly right.

As you can see....it did. UC can give ya more specifics on the weight,,,etc. Heck,,I've slept a few times since then.

You're absolutely correct, that there are other rifles that will shoot a conical. Knight used conicals to win the Manufacturer's shoot in Friendship for what,,,,5 or 6 years in a row??

Funny you mentioned that conical. I think its this 445 below and I was thinking of having Dan pour me some. An excellent design I thought with long bearing surface and short nose. Excellent design UC has there. What number is this Lee mold or does UC have the cherry?

For sidelocks I am partial to the TC Renegade 54 cal.

It was a limited group buy from Lee. I suppose Lee still has the cherry but I don't know what it would take to get them up and going on the molds again. I think we ordered 25 molds and those were all claimed from the get-go. My thinking was to design a bullet that would do well in both the Whites and the 1:28/1:30 twist rifles and it seems that was accomplished. Batchief's group was the first fired with the bullet so far as I know.

I think most of those molds drop bullets at about .505 diameter, some a fraction less and some a fraction more. Easily sized down to .501 if need be.

ps: Have Dan whip you up some to try. Can't beat his prices - makes casting them yourself almost seem like a waste. ;)

I normally just lurk here, but every now and then I feel compelled to jump in, especially when someone steps on their wanker.

I think maybe you should go back and read your initial post in this thread, YOU asked for opinions. I made it easier for you to see.


It looks to me, you had you mind made up from the start. That is too bad, because several people went out of their way to point you in the White direction. I would suggest you go back, open your mind, and read their replies again. There are other brands of individual rifles that CAN shoot conicals as well as a White, but EVERY White "straight out of the box" can shoot conicals better than any other brand as a whole. No CONTEST there!

Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it! :busted:

:pcwhack: Awesome LOL!

Thats going to leave a mark! :D:D:D

We haven't seen a lot of Big Paul since last winter. Then he was busy stirring the pot telling everybody how horrible the customer service was at T/C. Now he is down on White's. Who will it be next??? I, for one, am sitting on the edge of my seat.