Which do you prefer: Sabots or Powerbelt bullets?
05-25-2003, 09:40 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wabash, IN
Posts: 826
RE: Which do you prefer: Sabots or Powerbelt bullets?
I would say it depends on what I am wanting to do.
For target shooting, the PowerBelts are great. They shoot consistently, load easily, and hold pretty tight groups. However, they can be inconsistent on game when hunting. From all the reports I heard & read from people (and from my own personal experience with them) - their expansion on game is hit or miss. It seems like about 50% of those reports say that the bullets didn' t expand at all (entry & exit holes on game were the same size), while the other 50% had good expansion. It sounds like there are a lot of variables to play into their working properly. I' ve also seen where people, who did their own expansion tests, found that instead of mushrooming - the PowerBelt tips just folded over to one side and broke off, leaving the last 1/2 of the bullet to punch a full caliber hole through the opposite side of the intended game.
Personally, I' ve had better all-around results with Precision Rifle saboted bullets - either their QT polymers or their Extreme HPs. Both shoot tighter groups out of my Knight and their performance on game has been flawless - excellent expansion with devastating results. However they are much harder to load than PowerBelts.
So for hunting, I start off with a PR Sabot loaded up and carry several speedloaders rigged with PowerBelts for a 2nd shoot if one is required (since the PowerBelts load so much easier, without the use of a short starter).
For target shooting, the PowerBelts are great. They shoot consistently, load easily, and hold pretty tight groups. However, they can be inconsistent on game when hunting. From all the reports I heard & read from people (and from my own personal experience with them) - their expansion on game is hit or miss. It seems like about 50% of those reports say that the bullets didn' t expand at all (entry & exit holes on game were the same size), while the other 50% had good expansion. It sounds like there are a lot of variables to play into their working properly. I' ve also seen where people, who did their own expansion tests, found that instead of mushrooming - the PowerBelt tips just folded over to one side and broke off, leaving the last 1/2 of the bullet to punch a full caliber hole through the opposite side of the intended game.
Personally, I' ve had better all-around results with Precision Rifle saboted bullets - either their QT polymers or their Extreme HPs. Both shoot tighter groups out of my Knight and their performance on game has been flawless - excellent expansion with devastating results. However they are much harder to load than PowerBelts.
So for hunting, I start off with a PR Sabot loaded up and carry several speedloaders rigged with PowerBelts for a 2nd shoot if one is required (since the PowerBelts load so much easier, without the use of a short starter).
05-25-2003, 10:31 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Which do you prefer: Sabots or Powerbelt bullets?
Mark,
I hope you don' t mind a few questions.....I' ve read some of your posts and you seem to be the guy to talk to about muzzleloader bullets.
Being from PA, I' ve always been a Flintlock hunter......and up until recently a patched roundball shooter. When the regs changed here for the traditional flintlock season to allow all bullet types, our entire group switched to 295gr HP Powerbelts. To a man these Powerbelts shoot wonderfully out of our Flintlocks even with the slower twist rates as high (or should I say as low) as 1-66" . In fact I' ve never had beter accuracy out of my custom T/C " PA Hunter" . Cutting holes quite a bit with 1.5" groups the norm at 50 yards. (My load is a bit hot but shoots terrific: Goex BP 100gr FFFg/295gr HP)
We have been thumping the deer pretty hard with these bullets, but as you have eluded to the blood trails have been less than impressive on some,........I hammered a nice doe with a perfect double lung shot this past season and the blood trail was less than impressive even in a foot of snow.......granted the deer only ran 40 yards but there should have been more blood.
I was planning on shooting the Powerbelts in my new .50 CVA Hunterbolt 209 Mag, but after listening to you guys it seems that there might be some better choices for on game performance.
I have yet to fire a round out of this new gun (bought for the new week long muzzleloader season where inlines are legal, as well as general firearms season....I' m not a centerfire rifle hunter)
I am hearing good things about the T7 powder so that is probably where I' ll start..........
My confusion now is bullet choice..........I want good accuracy out to about 125 yards tops (most shots will be 75 yards or under but i want to be able to reach one if need be)
I also want rapid but controlled expansion and a larger wound channel........I want heavyblood trails, or dropped on the spot.
I was thinking along the lines of the 250gr Barnes " MZ" ? Do I need any heavier bullet for strictly Whitetails?
Also have you heard of any difference in bullet performance between the different styles of CVA Powerbelts .....for example the " " Aero Tip" vs. the Hollow point.
Thank you for any insights,
Matt
I hope you don' t mind a few questions.....I' ve read some of your posts and you seem to be the guy to talk to about muzzleloader bullets.
Being from PA, I' ve always been a Flintlock hunter......and up until recently a patched roundball shooter. When the regs changed here for the traditional flintlock season to allow all bullet types, our entire group switched to 295gr HP Powerbelts. To a man these Powerbelts shoot wonderfully out of our Flintlocks even with the slower twist rates as high (or should I say as low) as 1-66" . In fact I' ve never had beter accuracy out of my custom T/C " PA Hunter" . Cutting holes quite a bit with 1.5" groups the norm at 50 yards. (My load is a bit hot but shoots terrific: Goex BP 100gr FFFg/295gr HP)
We have been thumping the deer pretty hard with these bullets, but as you have eluded to the blood trails have been less than impressive on some,........I hammered a nice doe with a perfect double lung shot this past season and the blood trail was less than impressive even in a foot of snow.......granted the deer only ran 40 yards but there should have been more blood.
I was planning on shooting the Powerbelts in my new .50 CVA Hunterbolt 209 Mag, but after listening to you guys it seems that there might be some better choices for on game performance.
I have yet to fire a round out of this new gun (bought for the new week long muzzleloader season where inlines are legal, as well as general firearms season....I' m not a centerfire rifle hunter)
I am hearing good things about the T7 powder so that is probably where I' ll start..........
My confusion now is bullet choice..........I want good accuracy out to about 125 yards tops (most shots will be 75 yards or under but i want to be able to reach one if need be)
I also want rapid but controlled expansion and a larger wound channel........I want heavyblood trails, or dropped on the spot.
I was thinking along the lines of the 250gr Barnes " MZ" ? Do I need any heavier bullet for strictly Whitetails?
Also have you heard of any difference in bullet performance between the different styles of CVA Powerbelts .....for example the " " Aero Tip" vs. the Hollow point.
Thank you for any insights,
Matt
05-26-2003, 09:25 AM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wabash, IN
Posts: 826
RE: Which do you prefer: Sabots or Powerbelt bullets?
Matt,
It looks like the PowerBelts have served you pretty well out of your flinter - that' s a nice little deer there!
For your HunterBolt out to 125yds, I highly recommend the PR bullets I mentioned up above. Both the QTs and the Extremes have performed flawlessly for me. Personally, I shoot heavier bullets - 300 to 350gr. My Knight shoots these the best so I stick with ' em. The 348gr Aerotip PowerBelts will shoot into the same grouping as these bullets with the same power charge (90gr 777) - just not quite as tightly. But there is always that question as to whether the PowerBelt will perform well on tissue.
To see how the QT bullet performed on a boar, go check these pics out:
http://community.webshots.com/album/39293886KUEdol
This round went thru one shoulder shield & impacted against the opposite shield - expending all of its energy inside the body cavity.......which was a lot of organ damage! (And it' s common not to get a full pass through on a boar - no matter what type of gun or bullet is used). The newest bulletsfrom PR - the Dead Center - are supposed to be designed for guaranteed pass through on game in order to produce a good blood trail. I' ve just started working with these and have not got them up to the QTs accuracy as of yet.
I have shot the 300gr Barnes MZ on paper and they grouped pretty well at 50 & 100yds with 80gr of 777 - very comparable to the PowerBelt groups. I' ve never used them on game though - but I have heard a lot of people say good things about them. They can sure be BEARS to load though - VERY TIGHT in the bore. The newest ones are supposed to have slightly thinner sabots to solve that problem - but I haven' t tried any yet.
With the PowerBelts, I shoot mainly the 348gr Aero-tips. I have tried the 348gr lead HPs too and found that I needed to drop the powder charge 5gr from the Aerotips in order to maintain a good group. I' ve also experimented with the 405gr Aerotip & the 444gr lead flatpoints - for an anticipated future Buffalo hunt. With 100gr of 777, they shot pretty nice groups out to 50meters (and offer a TREMENDOUS recoil too). Again - those are my backup shots though, as I have 400gr PR QTs & Extremes for the first " money" shot.
I hope this helps you out Matt.
Good Shooting
It looks like the PowerBelts have served you pretty well out of your flinter - that' s a nice little deer there!
For your HunterBolt out to 125yds, I highly recommend the PR bullets I mentioned up above. Both the QTs and the Extremes have performed flawlessly for me. Personally, I shoot heavier bullets - 300 to 350gr. My Knight shoots these the best so I stick with ' em. The 348gr Aerotip PowerBelts will shoot into the same grouping as these bullets with the same power charge (90gr 777) - just not quite as tightly. But there is always that question as to whether the PowerBelt will perform well on tissue.
To see how the QT bullet performed on a boar, go check these pics out:
http://community.webshots.com/album/39293886KUEdol
This round went thru one shoulder shield & impacted against the opposite shield - expending all of its energy inside the body cavity.......which was a lot of organ damage! (And it' s common not to get a full pass through on a boar - no matter what type of gun or bullet is used). The newest bulletsfrom PR - the Dead Center - are supposed to be designed for guaranteed pass through on game in order to produce a good blood trail. I' ve just started working with these and have not got them up to the QTs accuracy as of yet.
I have shot the 300gr Barnes MZ on paper and they grouped pretty well at 50 & 100yds with 80gr of 777 - very comparable to the PowerBelt groups. I' ve never used them on game though - but I have heard a lot of people say good things about them. They can sure be BEARS to load though - VERY TIGHT in the bore. The newest ones are supposed to have slightly thinner sabots to solve that problem - but I haven' t tried any yet.
With the PowerBelts, I shoot mainly the 348gr Aero-tips. I have tried the 348gr lead HPs too and found that I needed to drop the powder charge 5gr from the Aerotips in order to maintain a good group. I' ve also experimented with the 405gr Aerotip & the 444gr lead flatpoints - for an anticipated future Buffalo hunt. With 100gr of 777, they shot pretty nice groups out to 50meters (and offer a TREMENDOUS recoil too). Again - those are my backup shots though, as I have 400gr PR QTs & Extremes for the first " money" shot.
I hope this helps you out Matt.
Good Shooting
05-29-2003, 01:14 AM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nicholasville, KY
Posts: 655
RE: Which do you prefer: Sabots or Powerbelt bullets?
Does anyone have experience with the Powerbelts on elk? I' ll likely stick with them, but may try Mark' s suggestion and play with some of the 348gr Lead HPs in addition to the 405gr Lead HPs I tried this past weekend. I wonder if the copper jacket could have some affect on the bullets performance, and me having to use lead bullets(WA law) will get better performance. I' m hoping anyway. It' d take a lot of velocity to blow through an elk anyway.
06-01-2003, 09:29 AM
#10
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 57
RE: Which do you prefer: Sabots or Powerbelt bullets?
Ihave to agree that the blood trail is minimal with the power belts. I also attribute that to the fact that I can' t seem to get one to pass through! I don' t know how you guys are getting pass through shots. I hunt with a couple of others and we have shot deer with everything from 80grains to 150 grains at yardages of 20 to 100 yards and to date we have not been able to get one shot completely through the deer. Almost every time we have found the bullet just under the hide on the other side. Perfect expansion with complete energy release. I myself am impressed with there preformance and acuracy, but not the price. Most deer I shoot with them don' t go that far so the blood trail issue has not been to big an issue with me. However if I was to go Elk hunting or other larger game I think I would go back to a maxi ball for that hunt. Just my $.02