Range Report: Frustration
08-27-2009, 06:10 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson, Wisconsin
Posts: 128
Range Report: Frustration
Just got back from the range.
The positive....I know the title said "Frustration" but I am happy to report that my dreaded Breech lock is a now a non factor. I shot 19 times with Triple 7, fffg and my breech plug came right out no problem with Sabotloaders advice on the T/C teflon tape trick.
Now to the frustration part.
I ended up shooting six, 3-shot groups with my Knight LRH with the non plastic breech plug.
All six groups were with Triple 7, fff powder volume measured at 110.
Triple 7 primers. All groups measured c-t-c.
Group 1...first two shots measured 0.480 then the third 3.376".
Barnes 250 MZ with HPH 12 sabots
Group 2...first two shots measured 0.886 then the third 1.48"
Barnes 250 MZ with Harvester EZ sabots (black)
Group 3...first two shots measured 0.224" then the third 0.765" (I'm happy) 250 MZ with Harvester EZ sabots (black)
Group 4...first two shots measured 0.454" then the third 2.474"
260 PT Gold with Harvester EZ sabots (strung out horizontal)
Group 5...first two shots 0.230 with the third 1.90". (Grrrrrrr)
250 MZ with harvester EZ sabots (strung out vertical)
Group 6...first two shots 0.602" with the third 2.12"
285 Barnes Spitfire with Yellow sabot. Strung out Horizontal
Do you see why I titled it Range Report.... Frustration???
The power stem breech plug I used earlier seemed to print slightly sub 1" MOA triangles with basically the same load.
FYI...For checking loads, I'm using a 6x20 Leupold tactical. kl
The positive....I know the title said "Frustration" but I am happy to report that my dreaded Breech lock is a now a non factor. I shot 19 times with Triple 7, fffg and my breech plug came right out no problem with Sabotloaders advice on the T/C teflon tape trick.
Now to the frustration part.
I ended up shooting six, 3-shot groups with my Knight LRH with the non plastic breech plug.
All six groups were with Triple 7, fff powder volume measured at 110.
Triple 7 primers. All groups measured c-t-c.
Group 1...first two shots measured 0.480 then the third 3.376".
Barnes 250 MZ with HPH 12 sabots
Group 2...first two shots measured 0.886 then the third 1.48"
Barnes 250 MZ with Harvester EZ sabots (black)
Group 3...first two shots measured 0.224" then the third 0.765" (I'm happy) 250 MZ with Harvester EZ sabots (black)
Group 4...first two shots measured 0.454" then the third 2.474"
260 PT Gold with Harvester EZ sabots (strung out horizontal)
Group 5...first two shots 0.230 with the third 1.90". (Grrrrrrr)
250 MZ with harvester EZ sabots (strung out vertical)
Group 6...first two shots 0.602" with the third 2.12"
285 Barnes Spitfire with Yellow sabot. Strung out Horizontal
Do you see why I titled it Range Report.... Frustration???
The power stem breech plug I used earlier seemed to print slightly sub 1" MOA triangles with basically the same load.
FYI...For checking loads, I'm using a 6x20 Leupold tactical. kl
08-27-2009, 06:17 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
Well klundin, it seems to me you should just skip shooting shot #3 and go straight to #4. 
At least you're consistent. If you're shooting at a pretty steady rate, I wonder if it's a hot barrel issue.
At least you're consistent. If you're shooting at a pretty steady rate, I wonder if it's a hot barrel issue.
08-27-2009, 06:35 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson, Wisconsin
Posts: 128
My routine was as follows. After the shot I would dampen a 2" patch and run it down the barrel. The crude "zone" was very distinct and it felt like it was 2" to 3" long. I would continue working the patch into the crude zone and back off, then work it a little further into the zone and back off, until I was all the way down. The patch would look like charcoal.
Then I would lightly dampen a second patch and run it down until the barrel until it was nice and smooth. (No crude zone) Then I would finish out with a dry patch and run it up and down the barrel. The barrel never got hot. It was only warm to the touch. Time between shots was about 6 to 7 minutes on average. I have some bench rest experience so I was aware of my form.
Then I would lightly dampen a second patch and run it down until the barrel until it was nice and smooth. (No crude zone) Then I would finish out with a dry patch and run it up and down the barrel. The barrel never got hot. It was only warm to the touch. Time between shots was about 6 to 7 minutes on average. I have some bench rest experience so I was aware of my form.
Last edited by klundin2000; 08-27-2009 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Spelling
08-27-2009, 06:43 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
klundin2000
While I think Lee asked the two pertenant questions, I would ask what is a Harvester EZ load (black) sabot?
I am surprised that you could even get an HPH-12 with a .451/.452 projectile. I think it would be a struggle...
The next MMP sabot down from that would be the HPH-24.
So now I am going to guess the sabot you might have been using is a Harvester Short Black???? It would be shorter that the black 12 you started with...
The other thing I might suggest if this is your first few shots from that barrel i would not take anything to seriously. You will need to break it in a little more then start really trying to drive tacks...
One other point.... put your hand around the barrel and the stock at the nose of the forearm.... squeeze the barrel into the stock and release it do you feel any contact with the stock until you bottom out - then when you release it slowly do you feel a spot that the barrel may get caught in the barrel channel?
I pre-make my patches before going to the range and if you make them correctly there is not need for a dry patch... in fact I use the same windex patch for several shots or until it dry out. I really do not want the bore clean - I just want it clear and smooth...
While I think Lee asked the two pertenant questions, I would ask what is a Harvester EZ load (black) sabot?
I am surprised that you could even get an HPH-12 with a .451/.452 projectile. I think it would be a struggle...
The next MMP sabot down from that would be the HPH-24.
So now I am going to guess the sabot you might have been using is a Harvester Short Black???? It would be shorter that the black 12 you started with...
The other thing I might suggest if this is your first few shots from that barrel i would not take anything to seriously. You will need to break it in a little more then start really trying to drive tacks...
One other point.... put your hand around the barrel and the stock at the nose of the forearm.... squeeze the barrel into the stock and release it do you feel any contact with the stock until you bottom out - then when you release it slowly do you feel a spot that the barrel may get caught in the barrel channel?
I pre-make my patches before going to the range and if you make them correctly there is not need for a dry patch... in fact I use the same windex patch for several shots or until it dry out. I really do not want the bore clean - I just want it clear and smooth...
Last edited by sabotloader; 08-27-2009 at 06:47 PM.
08-27-2009, 07:21 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson, Wisconsin
Posts: 128
Sabotloader
Thanks for the teflon tape tip!!
The EZ sabot is similar to a smooth sided Crushed rib. I just measured the Harvester EZ and it measured 0.854 long, the crushed rib measured 0.888" long and the Barnes HPH 12 measured 0.973" long.
The fit with the HPH 12 was very tight. Both Harvester sabots load snug but not crazy snug.
I probably have about 40 rounds through the LRH. When I first bought the Knight LRH the barrel was not free floated. I tried shooting it with the barrel free floated and then with the barrel just snugged up in the barrel channel. I got better groups when the barrel was snugged up, just the opposite of my rifles.
Thanks for the teflon tape tip!!
The EZ sabot is similar to a smooth sided Crushed rib. I just measured the Harvester EZ and it measured 0.854 long, the crushed rib measured 0.888" long and the Barnes HPH 12 measured 0.973" long.
The fit with the HPH 12 was very tight. Both Harvester sabots load snug but not crazy snug.
I probably have about 40 rounds through the LRH. When I first bought the Knight LRH the barrel was not free floated. I tried shooting it with the barrel free floated and then with the barrel just snugged up in the barrel channel. I got better groups when the barrel was snugged up, just the opposite of my rifles.
08-27-2009, 07:48 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
klundin2000
I am glad the teflon is working for you...
OK I am on the Harvester site - they do not make anything called and EZ load... just the 'Crush Rib' so I am still assuming it to be what we call the Harvester Short Black... product number H5045 SB...
Did not know that Knight even made a ML in the Extreme/Elite/LRH family that was not free floated. They even made a special recoil lug for the Elite/LRH series to insure that the barrel floated. The LRH even has an extra clip attached to the rear of the receiver to help insure that the action is pulled down.
In any case... if your barrel is resting in the wood channel of the LRH stock - you will need to be sure that you allow the barrel to cool. As it heats it will expand and it will push away from the stock changing your POI depending on the heat of the barrel.
Here is a blow-up of a LRH... do you have the part circled in red? The rear trigger guard screw (S15) should go up into the part (CC1) offering 2 points to anchor the LRH barreled action?
I know it is hard to see, but the the recoil lug shown hear is the forked recoil lug of the Elite/LRH... the extreme series does not have this type of lug.
Keep shooting - 40 rounds is just like it is a brand new gun... The bore will loosen a bit and smooth out even more as you shoot and your consistentcy from that bore will get better.
I am glad the teflon is working for you...
OK I am on the Harvester site - they do not make anything called and EZ load... just the 'Crush Rib' so I am still assuming it to be what we call the Harvester Short Black... product number H5045 SB...
When I first bought the Knight LRH the barrel was not free floated. I tried shooting it with the barrel free floated and then with the barrel just snugged up in the barrel channel. I got better groups when the barrel was snugged up, just the opposite of my rifles.
In any case... if your barrel is resting in the wood channel of the LRH stock - you will need to be sure that you allow the barrel to cool. As it heats it will expand and it will push away from the stock changing your POI depending on the heat of the barrel.
Here is a blow-up of a LRH... do you have the part circled in red? The rear trigger guard screw (S15) should go up into the part (CC1) offering 2 points to anchor the LRH barreled action?
I know it is hard to see, but the the recoil lug shown hear is the forked recoil lug of the Elite/LRH... the extreme series does not have this type of lug.
Keep shooting - 40 rounds is just like it is a brand new gun... The bore will loosen a bit and smooth out even more as you shoot and your consistentcy from that bore will get better.
08-27-2009, 11:00 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
If you bought the TC branded Teflon tape, you paid way too much. Try a Lowes (or similar building supply) and buy some pink Oatey tape. http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6270284
08-28-2009, 03:18 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hudson, Wisconsin
Posts: 128
Sabotloader,
I have the Harvester package in hand. It reads "E-Z Load Premium High Pressure Sabots".
When I bought the LRH I tried the dollar slid to see if the barrel was free floated. The barrel was not. By slightly loosing the front lug bolt, and slightly tighting the rear lug bolt the barrel raises up slightly. The rear lug bolt is attached to a "horse shoe" type thing (circled in red) in your picture that pulls down.
I didn't overtighten either of these lugs bolts.
When I was torquing on my breech plug the other day, I hope I didn't screw anything up. kl
I have the Harvester package in hand. It reads "E-Z Load Premium High Pressure Sabots".
When I bought the LRH I tried the dollar slid to see if the barrel was free floated. The barrel was not. By slightly loosing the front lug bolt, and slightly tighting the rear lug bolt the barrel raises up slightly. The rear lug bolt is attached to a "horse shoe" type thing (circled in red) in your picture that pulls down.
I didn't overtighten either of these lugs bolts.
When I was torquing on my breech plug the other day, I hope I didn't screw anything up. kl