I never wiped in the middle of shots just once.

Lee- on that website I would need your thinking ---50 Cal. Rifle
.451 - .452 Bullet correct?

Right, and there is a fairly wide range of sabots and as different manufactures tend to make there barrels a bit different in size. most Knight barrels tend to be a bit on the loose side which means the black harvester or the MMp hph24 [same thickness] or the MMP 12 often fit best. If it slides down easy it might come off the powder and act as a barrel obstruction. If you can push it down with out much effort its to loose for good accuracy most of the time if it takes both hands and you have to put a bit of effort into it it will probably be in the right neighborhood, if its so tight you would like pound on it with some thing then it is too tight and will likely not shoot good. Hope this helps. You might get on Modern Muzzle loader Forum and go to inline muzzle loaders and look at the sticky on bullets and sabots they have it well laid out. Lee

You say shots 7-9 didn't pattern, I disagree. I think they shot about a 2-inch group, which is "ok".

First question, is it the gun or is it you? I always like to take a rimfire or centerfire to the range with me that I am 100% certain is accurate so that if my groups are crap, I can shoot the gun of known accuracy and confirm that I'm not having issues that day. Some days this is all I needed to learn it was NOT the gun.

Next, 110gr BH209 is a relatively stiff load for a new gun. I would start with any gun at a lower charge, maybe 80gr, and work up. With EACH different bullet tested. Expensive yes, time consuming yes, guaranteed to avoid frustration and let you know what is going on, yes. Some bullet/sabot combos will top out at 85gr for max accuracy in a given gun, when others in the same gun will shoot fine at max charge. If you jump straight to a middle powder charge, it's hard to say what's going on.

Finally, I don't like how you describe the looseness of the sabot. IMHO sabots are more accurate the tighter they are. No, you don't want to pound them down with a hammer, but it should take a firm hand to get them down. I would recommend a tighter sabot, or a different bullet/sabot combination completely.

A 2-in group with the first bullet/sabot combination, especially when it was loose, is not bad. It's a starting point. Keep working with it, you'll get there.

I'm sure most dont agree with everything he does or says (toby bridges) he was able to use the same set-up as me from the 209m primers to the amount and type of the powder to the scope and bullets. He was able to shoot 50 bullets in a 1.6" hole without cleaning at 100 yds.

Now first off I'm not him and if I was and I did that I might of had a heart attack. I don't shoot as much as he does,( I know he has over 6000 shots with that gun) I don't have the time in the gun I'm sure at the point he did that. However he was able to have the same gun shoot the same bullets in a tight close group on more than on occasion. However once again his gun is not my gun. There could be a 0.002" difference who knows.


http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/NewsRelease.html

I know he also tried several diiferent jackets (sabots) and charges of 777 and bh209 and found that " If your rifle has something different, this bullet and sabot combination may not shoot as well" However if it shot half as well I would be happy as hell. One thing I want to do is try 10gr less of bh209 and see what it does. That'll be 100gr.

someone on here said to try a different sabot which I have called on already. As far as 7-9 no pattern. I consider it no. If #7 was on the other side of the bullseye I would be estatic. I took my 300 mag and shot really good 10 shots my average of all of them together was 1.45" away from center to center. Two of them where 2 1/2" and the other 2 1/4" center to center away.

I'll have to see what works best but I'm at fault a bit too with moving a bit as wel I'm sure.