It finally cleared up this afternoon and looked liked it would be a good day to go shoot. So I grabbed the Knight and headed to the farm.

The mission was to shoot the 45 cal across a chrono and get some velocites. As most know this 45 fad is new to me and I am still trying to learn a bit. I have/had no idea what velocities I might get from the 45. In my mind, I thought I should see somewhat of a decent jump from a 50 cal shooting a 200 grain bullet to a 45 cal shooting the same 200 grain bullet.

Now remember these are just my thoughts and numbers and may not reflect your thoughts or numbers.

I guess in the end I was really surprised and somewhat disappointed in what I got for velocities. The 45 really limits what choices you have for projectile weights in a sabot and really the only thing I am interested in shooting is a 200 grain+/- bullet. and in may case the 200 grain is very convenient as I can shoot that in a 50 also...

I should say i do not believe there was anything wrong with the powder or the chrono they both work very and are very comparable to what I have been getting all along.

The only thing I regret is I did not take any BH-209 along to shoot. The reason I never even thought about it is in the past shooting the same 200 grain bullet from a 50 cal - the T7-2f always had greater velocity through 120 grains of powder. That trend, for me reverses with a 250+ grain bullets, the BH will create achieve greater velocities.

During this test I was never shooting for accuracy - just running projectiles through the chrono. All I can say is I believe I was getting tighter groups when shooting in the 100 grain range than I was with either the 110 or 120 grain loads. I can say this applies to both the Elite and the Extreme.

Well here is the results of the test and all I can share with you is what I recorded... which may or may not go along with what the rest of you are getting... I will revisit this spread sheet later in the week when I shoot equal loads of BH.

That's interesting stuff Sabotloader. Here's some comparative data from back in Februaryout of the 30" barrel of my .45 GM LRH Renegade with some of the same loads you were shooting. I was swabbing with one side of one alcohol patch between shots.

200 grain .40 XTP / Harvester H4540B Sabot

80 grains T7 FFG = 1784, 1794, 1799 = 1792 fps average. (Sabotloader's average was 1903)
90 grains T7 FFG = 1796, 1850, 1838 = 1828 fps average. (Sabotloader's average was 1998)
100 grains T7 FFG = 1875, 1852, 1927 = 1884 fps average. (Sabotloader's average was 2049)
110 grains T7 FFG = 2061, 2048, 2018 = 2042 fps average. (Sabotloader's average was 2093)

Quite a difference in velocities, eh? It just goes to show you how much faith we should put inpublished velocities, orthe velocity some other guy reports. There are so manyvariables (temperature, elevation, actual bore diameter, barrel smoothness, compression of the load, swabbing/no swabbing, etc.) that someone else's results can only be viewed as a rough guideline.

Semi

Once again you have come through with great information... I was really down in the dumps with these velocities - I was expecting much higher, but after viewing your numbers I might be as far off as I thought I might have been.

I am really hoping to get out this week and run some 'Black Gold' BH through the same test - really wish i had taken some with me...

Just out of couriosity - what is your most accurate load volume in the GM-LRH barrel?

I did also note it was a 30" barrel vs my 25.5" barrel... which also does not make a lot of sense... unless...

Hey Sabotloader, so far it looks like 80 grains is going to be the most accurate load under this bullet/sabotwith T7 FFG (80 GV T7 FFG from my TC U-View measure weighs 57 grains).

The target below is about as good as I can get it to shoot at 100 yards. But the same load shoots 1/2" groups at 50 yards - go figure. It will group almost as wellwith 90 grains of Pyrodex RS but doesn't seem to likePyrodex P. I haven't tried T7 FFFG with that bullet yet.

I don't see anything strange about those velocities. You're getting 60-70 fps more velocity in a .45 than I get in a .50 with the same charge and same bullet weight. I've been a little questioning about some of the higher velocities being reported. Not that I think anyone is making anything up, but it's nothing I would be able to replicate in my gun with safe charges.

You should be able to get 1500 or possibly 1600 fps with a conical in that 45 and you should be able to get a considerably more heavy bullet at that velocity. I think you could easily get a 400 grain pill in that rifle to do 1600 fps. That would be considerably more devastaing on game over a 200 grain pill in a sabot(IMO).

I think the conical bullet is the real advantage of the 45 caliber MZ.

I always believed the 45 caliber MZ should approach 45/70 ballistics. Why not??

Have you measured the bore in your rifle?? Tom.

very interesting information here. I have a .45 Green Mountain barrel but have not had a chance to play with it too much. One of these days I need to get me one of them chronographs.

sabotloader
That's not only very interesting, it is the ideal base for a comparison with BH with the non- burn point established on T7.
That is some excellent documentation. Lee

I recorded several 200g bullet offerings, with 130gV = 93.6gW BH209, at +2500fps with MMP Cream/Tan 45/40cal sabots.

The Harvester Smooth Blue 45/40 cal always showed lower chrono readings but grouped very well.
Maybe MMP's get a better gas seal?

spaniel

Yes, I would agree with that, but I guess I really felt that I might get much better than that because of the reduced bore size creating a greater pressure curve. But the na gain that light 200 grain projectile is getting up out the barrel in a hurry....

HEAD0001

I had not really thought about shooting conicals from the 45, altough I know it can be done. If I were going to shoot conicals though, I would probably just use my 50 cal White, I shoot a 460 grain Bull Shop from that @ 1525 fps.

I have not slugged the bore, but the tan MMP and the regular Harvester Light Blue fit very well - pretty snug going down.

Lee

As soon as I can get back out I plan to re-shoot some of these loads + I will shoot the corresponding loads of BH to get those velocities. The one thing that I have not really looked at real yet is 'accuracy' but it APPEARS, that my accuracy point comes in around 100 grains. I had an email conversation with Del Ramsey -MMP- the other day as I had sent him some pictures of his sabots that I shot from the Extreme. It really appeared to me that I was really stressing the cups of the sabot - thought I might be gas cutting them. He is a big fan of the 45, he likes shooting the 45, but when I indcated I was shooting up to 120 grains of T7, I really got the feeling he thought it was kinda a waste. He really felt that 90 was a good number and after that accuracy would begin to suffer. The point of my conversation with him was why not a HPH type sabot for the 45?

Lane

I know you and Grouse both, as well as others, are shooting those velocities and they are really working well for you guys. I do plan on shooting some 'Black Gold' as soon as I can get out again. I will shoot the same volumes weights with BH and see what shows up. I also know my Volume measure is consistently low on the actual weight of the powder, but I can work with that.

Cayugad

I know you pointed this out in this thread on another forum, but the results of 120 grain loads really makes me wonder. 3f burns a lot fasrer, and cleaner I might add, than 2f but, has 120 grains of 3f burned out before the projectile leaves the bore.


Uall

I am really hoping to get out again this week and shoot the the 'black gold' round of this spread sheet. Then I will start on the search to find the most accurate load for me.

But I got to tell you right now, I still wonder the value of the 45 if you got a good 50? But, matbe I can reverse that a little bit later...

Oh! by the way - try to find a couple of boxes of 10mil/200 grain XTP's out there in the real world - finally track down 3 boxes at Grafs - the only three they had... $22 - the box I am using right now is marked $13.95. Gotta love this economy...