http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Alert.html

I really can't believe Toby keeps bringing this up. I just wonder since the announcement with Knight closing he's not trying to get more money? I think it's really sad.

He is blocking my access to that site from here. I will have to check it out from another location or proxy.

However, if it follows his usual format, it is just more compulsive emoting over something or other that his dog got tired of listening to and insisted he write it down and share with other humans.

Look at that carefully, am I the only one that looks like an over load to? That barrel looks like it blew out right behind the bullet and split in both directions. One reason I don't like putting smokeless in a muzzle loader is because that is what would happen if you accidentally double charged it. I reload and I all ways try to find a powder that will not only shoot good but comes close to filling the case so if something goes wrong I find out the easy way. Lee

Your exactly right.

Looks that way to me too.

Where is the piece of the barrel that broke away? Bet they were unable to locate it. Looks like the missing piece of barrel broke from the front, bent toward the shooter and then broke at the threads.Look at the piece of barrel on the left that started to break at the place where the missing piece broke.

Thismay be a classic case of not properly seating the the sabot on the powder.

I'm no expert on the subject but it doesn't appear to me that the failure resulted around the breech plug. Rather the area where the sabot would be. Just like what you guys have been saying.

What motive would Mr. Bridges have to try to discredit Savage?

That was my first thought when the guy said his friend had just got done talking to him mins before... The thought went through my mind of 'oops, got distracted anddouble charged it' but that's only my opinion.

Agreed!!



And just for the record...I NEVER did like the breech plug with that long snout AND that air-space
A fully threaded plug like the H.Ball original just makes more sense...Common Sense, that is

Quoted from the article:


A lot of what he says makes perfectly good sense. But then if the problem is widespread and serious, we'd probably be hearing about more of the Savages blowing up.
But safety is an issue that's important to everyone and it's better to be aware and cautious then to not be at all.
This reminds me of a professional saying that goes, "In medicine anything is possible." That's because inexplicable medical occurances happen on a regular basis. Just because an event might only happen to some guns doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all. It just means that it only happens to some guns and someone should examine some of the possible factors about why it happens to some and not others.
I've also heard that it's a known fact that the right harmonics and certain vibration frequencies can bring down certain types of bridges just like human voice waves can shatter glass.
So I don't think that any possible causes for the exploded Savages should be discounted just because of who Toby Bridges is. Maybe he is a "David" going up against a "Goliath", and I'm not betting against him.
Toby --><--Savage

Money and revenge motivate Toby Bridges.

I think that Toby Bridges is just vindictive liar once again trying to stir up a hornets nest at Savage's expense. Of course, in his article he doesn't mention all the other events that led up to his 10ML-II blowing up. He doesn't tell us that there was already bad blood between him and Savage because Savage wouldn't take him on as a full time paid rep, or pay him what he wanted. He doesn't mention that he'd had a similar falling out with the Balls over money as well. Basically, Bridges felt that he was worth a lot more to Savage than Savage did. When he demanded more money, Savage told him to go blank himself. Bridges had also done a great deal of experimenting with extreme loads for the 10ML-II, using powders not specifically recommended by Savage, grossly exceeding the MAX loads published by Savage, and using duplex and triplex smokeless loads, and was publishing his experiments. Savage, recognizing that Bridges was playing with fire and that Bridges was de facto connected to Savage, they told him to cease and desist before something happened. Bridges, of course, is an arrogant punk that thinks he knows more about this stuff than Savages engineers, so he basically ignored them while demanding more money. So, recognizing the liability issues, Savage cut him loose and a few days later his 10ML-II suffers a catastrophic failure because of a "design flaw" recognized only by Bridges himself.

Bridges also claims that he knows of 4 other 10ML-II blow ups, but won't publish their names or the photos he claims they sent him, so we really don't know if he's telling the truth or not. Besides, 4 incidents is hardly a strong indicator that the weapon is flawed, when you consider that there are probably a few hundred thousand 10ML-II's out there that are just fine (including mine).

As for the "gas cutting" on the breech plug... I'm no engineer, but I do know that for gas cutting to occur there must be space for the gas to flow. On my 10ML-II, my breechplug tightens such that the face of the plug is firmly seated against the ledge inside the barrel. If the breechplug is tightened correctly, there would be no space for gas to flow through, hence no gas cutting.

Also, if you look at the picture of his blown up rifle, it's readily apparent that the greatest expansion of the barrel was well forward of the breech plug (which was strong enough to stay put despite the barrel breaking apart, BTW). If the failure had occured because if gas flowing into the tiny space between the plug and the barrel, then it would stand to reason that the greatest damage would be focused at the breechplug, not a few inched farther forward. What that looks like to me is a classic example of a bore obstruction. My guess is that Bridges double loaded the rifle, probably with a load that was far hotter than the published Savage loads as he was so fond of publicly doing, and the rifle, like any other with a bore obstruction, blew up. I have a picture of a Savage 114 30-06 that blew up, too... because the idiot shooting it left the laser boresighter in the muzzle. Just because the shooter messed up doesn't mean that the gun is flawed.

Let's also consider for a moment the fact that, despite these alleged incidents, Savage hasn't issued a recall or changed the design. Why? In today's sue-happy climate, if the gun really were flawed, and blow-up were happening with published safe loads regularly, Savage would have been sued out of existance already. Yet, to my knowledge, there are NO pending lawsuits against Savage for 10ML-II safety and design problems.

Bridges claims 5 total incidents, including his own, stating that the owners of the guns involved contacted him. Maybe it's just me, but if these guys contacted Toby Bridges it stands to reason that they were familiar with his work regarding the 10ML, and were likely readers of his columns where he regularly experimented with loads that were not tested or endorsed by Savage (in fact, just the opposite is true, as Savage expressly told him to stop) and published the data for these readers to see. Because of this, I would not be at all surprised if the other incidents were a result of experimenting with excessive loads of unsuitable powders, or even duplex and triplex loads (which are VERY dangerous and unpredictable outside a fully equipped ballistics lab with proper pressure test equipment), following Bridges lead. Now, from my perspective, if that was the case then it's Bridges that bears liability for publishing unsafe experimental load data that others also tried to failure, not Savage since they disassociated themselves from him because of his hubris and folly.

BTW, I've fired perhaps 400-500 round through my 10ML-II, all using powders and loads published in my 10ML-II owners manual (using both Accurate Arms 5744 and Vihta Vouri N-110 smokeless powders), with the breechplug properly tightened in the breech, and I can see absolutely NO signs whatsoever of "gas cutting." I also exercise good ML habits by using witness marks and paying attention to what I'm doing when loading my rifle. I have had no problems whatsoever with my rifle, and am confident enough in its safety that I would not hesitate to allow my kids to shoot it. In fact, I take great comfort in the fact that the 10ML-II is the ONLY mass produced muzzleloader in the world that every single rifle is proof tested before leaving the factory. EVERY ONE. All other ML manufacturers proof only a sampling of each batch of barrel blanks made. The 10ML-II is proofed to the exact same standards as every centerfire rifle. In fact, during development Savage proofed the design with loads producing as much as 129,000 PSI without failure. Considering that the hottest CF rifle cartridges produce a max pressure of 65,000 PSI, the 10ML has survived pressures twice that. The only was to exceed the limits of the rifle is to grossly overload it with inappropriate powder, or to have a bore obstruction, neither of which are the fault of Savage or a result of inadequate or flawed design. The rifle is safe with the loads Savage designed it to shoot. If Bridges is an idiot or, as I believe, acting with malice, and blew up his rifle out of his own negligence or recklessness, or, again as I believe, intentionally, then he's the only one to blame.

Mike