Bullet Hole Bailey

Well to start things off, I am shooting an Italian percussion rifle. 50 cal Hawken''s style. I do not know what the "rate of twist" is.

So I got into BP a little while ago and while I seriously enjoy shooting this smokepole, I cannot seem to get it too shoot real good for me. I have a realnice Lyman peep on it too.

I recently drew a ML tag for deer and I am really excited to get to hunt the rut in a place where It is limited to ML hunting, and holds great bucks all over.

So anywho, I have only shot round ball and patches so far, .490 Speer balls with a lubed .010 patch, and 85 grains of T7, FFF. I mostly have shot at 25 yards to just get the hang of the thing and I can get about 2" or so groups there but it seems that they fall apart at 50 and 100 yards. This could be because this is mostly just using a rest and havent got to put it in a bench gun vise type deal that holds the gun a little sturdier. But I dont want to use up all my powder just shootin round balls for fun so I was wandering if 85 grains is too much for FFF?

Also I want to switch to Musket caps because for some reason this gun is a little un reliable with the #11 caps, sometimes takes a couple hits to go off. Which sucks...

Anyway, if you have any advice or words of wisdom they will be gladly appreciated!

Thanks!
BHB

cayugad

It would help to know the twist as some of them did have a 1-32 twist, but I will hazard to guess it has a 1-48 twist. Who made the rifle.. Investarms, Cabelas, Lyman, Pedersolli?

I think on problem I see is the ball and patch size. Some of the Italian rifles have a little larger bore. I would move a patch size up to .018 and see if that makes a difference. Or go to a .495 ball. When you load the patch and ball.. does it load and slide down the barrel real easy?

If it is loading real easy, you might be getting a gas escape in the patch. With that rifle the least I would run is a .015 patch. The powder sounds about rifle for the charge.

On the ignition.. with the #11 cap. If you are using the factory nipple, replace it with a hot shot nipple. For some reason those Italian factory nipples cause ignition problems. Next... Are you swabbing between shots? If you are, make sure that bore is dry, or you WILL have ignition problems. Also pick the nipple from time to time, make sure that nipple is clean. If you are shooting CCI (standard) caps.. that could be your problem. Go to the CCI Magnum or some Remington #11 caps.

When you first get ready to shoot the rifle, swab the bore of the rifle with pure isopropyl alcohol Then a couple dry patches. Next push a dry patch all the way down the bore to the breech and pop a cap.Pull that patch and check it for a burn mark. If there is not one, push it back down the bore and pop another cap. Check again for a burn mark. Do this UNTIL YOU GET a burn mark.

Many times when we clean and oil our rifles, oil will work in to the bolster. It is necessary to swab all the oil out of the bore, and pop enough caps through the nipple to blow that bolster clear of oil and what ever.

Next, after you pour your powder, turn the rifle to the side, lock facing the ground. Now slap that lock with the flat of your hand. By doing this you know powder out of the breech chamber, into the bolster and under the cap. So when ignition is made, the spark reached powder immediately and you get a good fast ignition.

Also if the rifle is a fast twist, try some conicals. Some of the Great Plains conicals by Hornady, maybe some powerbelts, or Hornady FPB's, even maxiball. The faster twist rifles like the 1-32 like conicals and even sabots.

These are just a few suggestions. I am sure I missed some key points.

Semisane

Well, for one thing BHB, you really need to find out the rate of twist in your barrel to figure out what bullet is likely to shoot best.

It's easy to do. Clean the barrel well, then put a very tight patch on the ramrod so that the rod rotates with the rifling as you push it down the barrel. Push the patched rod down the bore and then put a piece of masking tape/painters tape/etc. aroundthe rod right right at the muzzle. With a pen/pencil/marker put a dot on the tape so that the dot lines up with the front sight. Then withdraw the rod slowly, allowing it to rotate with the rifling. When the dot on the tape has rotated1/4 turnput another mark on the rod right at the muzzle. Measure the distance between the dot on the tapeand the mark on the rod, and multiply that measurement by 4. (For example, if it rotated 12" in 1/4 turn, when you multiply that 12" by 4 you find out that your rate of twist is 1 turn in 48".) Now youknow your rate of twist.

Eighty five grains of T7 FFFG is a pretty hot load for a 50 caliber ball. I would not expect great accuracy with that load under a patched ball. I'll bet it's blowing the hell out of those .010 patches. I suggest you try Pyrodex before youswitch to a musket nipple. I suspect your ignition problems will go away and youget better accuracy.

When you say "sometimes it takes a couple of hits to go off",do you mean the cap takes a couple of hits before it pops, or you have to pop a couple of caps to get to load to ignite. If the caps take more than one hit to pop you probably have a nipple problem. Get a new nipple or dress the one you have with a file.

EDIT: I see Cayugad and I were typing our replies at about the same time. I hereby bow to his wisdom.

Bullet Hole Bailey

Thanks Cayugad!

Ok so on the barrel it says "Armsport", not sure if thats the manufacturer or not.

With a single patch it doesnt load particularly easy, I have to push her down there pretty good.

Yes factory nipple..that thing is crap. And yes with standard CCI caps also.

Swabbing between shots, yes.

I was planning on using the Hornady Great Plains bullet this November, I believe its a 385 grain conical...


BHB

lemoyne

If you would mark your ramrod so you can see how much it tuns and measure the amount of ram rod that goes into the barrel when the gun is empty and give us these answers we can tell you what twist you have and what bullets to try. Lee

Bullet Hole Bailey

Providing i did Semisanes method right...the Rate of twist comes out to about 1:62"...hope that sounds somewhat right! I will re check to make sure

nchawkeye

What do your patches look like?? What are you lubing them with?? Most don't pay attention to them after they have shot but since you are using a thin patch and a hot powder (777) I bet you are burning through the patches so they can't impart spin on the ball and accuracy goes to heck...

Change powder and go to a .015 or .018 patch...You won't notice much difference on how hard it is to ram the ball down because once you get past 5-6 inches the lead ball has conformed to the barrel...

777 is hit and miss as far as ignition in a percussion gun because the ignition temp is so high...

If at all possible get a pound of Goex FFF...It's real black powder and ignites at a lower temp, that's why it's so hard for some people to find...

I use 80grs FFF in my .54, that is also plenty in a .50 with a ball...

Semisane

That would be very typical for a barrel designed to shoot patched balls. With that Lyman peep sight and shooting from a bench with a sand bag rest, I suspect that once you find the right patch/lube/powder combination you will be shootingone-inch 50 yard groups.

cayugad

your ignition I suspect to a bad nipple and worthless caps. Also sometimes when people swab traditional rifles, they get them too wet and end up pushing crub against the bolster area of the rifle, covering the fire snail.

Try swabbing with alcohol. LIGHTLY dampen the patch and work it in short strokes down the bore. Then a couple dry ones. If you have any doubt of the moisture, pop a cap before you load.

There were a lot of roundball rifles out there. 1-66 was a common twist for them.

Bullet Hole Bailey

Am I supposed to be finding my patches? If so...I havent looked for any on the ground and havent noticed any just by walking over them.

Ok...So I need, new nipple, possibly new powder, thicker patches, different caps, and alcohol for swabbing?

Thanks guys!

I really have been seeing some great bucks in there in the rut and I want to only need one shot for the whole season. I really want to drop one of those big blacktails!