Though I haven'tshot 200 grain .40 caliber bullets at 100 yards out of the Mustang,I did shoot six 3-shot groups of.410/210 grainGold Dots back in November with charges rangingfrom 90 grains to 150 grains of T7 FFG. Igot 50 yard groups ranging form 1 & 3/8" to 3 & 3/8", with the best group from the 90 grain charge.

I did manage to work in one 5-shot group with .40 caliber 200 grain Lehighs last week end. I shot at 100 yards and used 105 grains of T7. The group wasn't great, but not too bad overall. Certainly a usable hunting load - actually pretty good compared to the the 50 yard Gold Dot groups.

I'm looking forward to working with other loads with the bullet to see if I can shrink the group. But, realistically, I've come to the conclusion that the Mustang is never going to consistentlyshoot one-inch groups with any bullet.

I wish I had shot this group over the chronograph to get a velocity average, but it was hot and humid and I just didn't feel like fooling with the chrono.

very nice shooting there...

I see 5 dead deer

Grouse was pushing those 200 grainers 2000fps+, I wonder how they would perform on game with moderate loads in the 1600-1800 range.

TNHagies

I THINK.. Lehigh Dave ran the numbers on these .40/200 grain bullets and the computed to nearly 2300 fps is needed in a 1/28 twist. Mathematically they are great in a 1/24 at moderate speeds.

This is one of the reason they have scaled the 200 grain back and shortened it to 185 grains. That should shoot very well from 1/28.

Semi this might also have something to do with your grouping. I shot them with a 110 grains T7-2f and could not match the groups Grouse was getting until I shot them from my White - there was a world of difference there.

Semisane have you shot any 200 lehighs thru the X7. From what Im learning here the 200s are too long for a 1/28 the 185s will be shorter, so they will stablize Better??

Out of a 50caliber ML that's true. I think the 200's are perfect for a 45cal ML at 2300fps and above. The 200's will shoot in a 50cal if you push them a little. Knight Muzzleloaders it's not an issue at all. They are approved and tested at higher velocities then T/C Muzzleloaders.

sabotloader, Grouse I think we all agree you need to push them hard out of a 1/28 or you can slow them down in a 1/24, my thoughts are how does the bullet perform on actualgame. I think we've figured out how to make them shoot accuratly. I'm wondering what the limits of brass are. We all know you can't push lead too hard and there's ranges that XTPs and others perform best at. I am humble enough to admit I have no idea what the limits areof brass, that's why I'm asking. I'm just wondering if those who choose not to shoot 2300+ will be able to see the same (or similar) results. At this point it appears they make an excellent wound channel and keep driving. But if you knock 600fps off of them, how do you think will they perform?

Yes I did Burntmuch. I tried three shots at 100 yards - got a 5" group and quit. I think the short barrel of the X7 just won't generate the speed these "longish"bullets need. I've also tried 200 grain .400 XTPs and 210 grain .410 Gold Dots out of the X7 and got no better than 3 & 3/4" groups at 100 yards.

TNHagies

For my part i can not give you first hand information about performance, Grouse can he recently used them on a hog hunting expedition, actually he and two of his friends from different rifles used the Lehigh 200 and 250 grain bullets.

If you work your way through this thread you can read the results...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.a...age=1&key=Hog?

This the absolute hardest part for us old timers to buy into... the theory of how the Lehigh is designed to work. For me it truly is a mental adjustment... but i really want to try this adjustment for two reasons... 1. Lehigh Dave and others might actually be right - this may be a better mouse trap and 2. the impending lead ban that might work it's way across the country faster than we might believe, Barnes is one answer - Nosler's 'E' bullet might be another.

This thread, although very long, illustrates what i am talking about... some refuse to believe others are willng to look, but it should be pointed out the theory is not that new Lehigh Dave has been making these bullets for several years now, but they have been used in bigger bore centerfires... Another to think about - he stared with copper, following along the lines of the Barnes family but moved to Brass as the theory developed. The brass works better than copper for this particular bullet.

There was also quite a debate that this bullet is designed to 'fragment' and give up weight and in reality that is true - but how it frags and what happens after that is truly ingenious - especially if you know anything about the 'Keith Nose' bullets and how they work and perfrom.

Anyway here is a long thread that migh help you understand a bit more - well i hope it does...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.a...378776&mpage=1

Your 600 fps second question might be an excellent question to PM Lehigh Dave about... I know I plan on shooting them at less velociy than Grouse is - nad i do plan on taking a whitetail with one this fall - which seems like an eternity away right now.

sabotloader,

I've read all the threads and you may recall I was the one that posted the pics of the ballistics gel they were shot into. I've been reading practically everything I can get my hands on about them. I don't know if I'll ever use them simply because the cost (unless I'm forced to with the lead ban you speak of (to of which I agree is inevitable)) but they do catch my interest-as does anything ML related.

But when Grouse and his buddies shot the hogs they were all using 130g BH (for both the 200 and 250 as I understand). That's a pretty stout load. I for one will probably never shoot a load that hot. I'm too recoil sensitive[&o] And I think there are others out there that are as well. That's why I'm curious.

I think the concept is fairly ingenious.-and I'm fairly convinced they'll work. I'm just going to be interested to see how they perform at lower speeds on game. Too bad not very many people have anything to hunt until fall unless you're blessed to live in a hog state.