A Manufacture's Perspective
05-31-2009, 02:57 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
A Manufacture's Perspective
A post earlier in the week got me to thinking that besides learning a new word, I might be able to expand on the opportunities available today for a manufacture for product development. When I read the posts, I came away with the impression that you, the shooters, have significantly underestimated your role in the advancement of the sport. As a manufacture, our strength is making things, you are the experts in developing and improving products; you have taken the sport of muzzleloading to where it is today, not the manufactures. It is your requests for better products that drive the sport. We would probably be happy selling you round balls and patches for another few hundred years, but no, you screwed that all up and we have been forced to change and improve.
Forums like this one open the door to manufactures that was not available before. It puts us in direct contact with the best of the experts. Prior to this if we wanted to develop an innovative product we had to already be an expert in the field, or would hire a consulting company to evaluate the product, or would just bring the product to market and see if anything sold.
For a manufacture to become an “expert” in anything but manufacturing, takes a long time and is not really practical. Probably more products have been developed by a user generating an idea and then taking it to a manufacture for production. Hiring a consulting company to test the market viability of a product is always skewed toward the manufacture getting back a favorable result for what they have already invested a lot of money into. It is just our nature to expect confirmation of our idea when we are paying cash for the evaluation. Do you really think us, the consumers, were clamoring for AMC that we wanted the Pacer, or do you think AMC hired a consulting company and said “hey, look at this isn’t this the coolest car ever, let us know how many millions we are going to sell the first year”. Lastly, there is the consumer be damned approach of “it is a great product because I say so and you better buy it“. It always amazes me to go to the SHOT Show every year and see these guys with $4,000 booths trying to sell products that may perform a function, but are not really marketable. I tell my friends that if I come up with a poor idea and am fixated on it, keep hitting me with a ball bat until I stop.
Today, it is different; we have access to you to get ideas from, to develop products, to test them and to refine them. You are the experts, we just make things. I was at another ML supplier in the Fall and three times a day, they scan all the posts looking for ideas and getting feedback on their products. I am pretty sure we all do this; why wouldn’t we? So, think a minute about your position and about how much influence you have; post your ideas and thoughts because we are listening.
Thanks,
Dave
05-31-2009, 06:40 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: A Manufacture's Perspective
Lehigh
Good morning Dave and welcome aboard...
I have read your post, actually read it twice in a row. You really bring out some interesting points.
I believe that your conclusion about the sportsman driving the developemnt and advancement of the sport are really spot on. I would also add that there are a few that really do not want the technology to advance. I am one of those that really enjoys both ends of the sport, I certainly could not be called a 'traditionalist' but i do enjoy shooting what would appear to 'traditional' but I am also one that loves the advancement of the muzzleloading as a shooting sport.
It has become somewhat of a more common practice that manufactures try to take advantage of the consumers ability to test product for them. I think it would be a natural that the manufacture might seek the thoughts of the consumer in product developement. It would seem logical that the people that might use the product might have input into it's development. It also seems to me that consumer input might serve a couple of purposes. 1. Some of the thoughts and ideals that we suggest might actually make the product better and therefore make it serve its purpose a little better. The done side to that is that, it is impossible to meet everyones wants or expectations, but i believe manufacturiers that listem might have a chance at a better overall product. 2. Is it possible that using us to help in development and testing might actually make the product less expensive to the consumer in the market place?
There are a lot of us that have tested end products for various companies and most of us are excited and willing to do this testing. It really is satisfying when we might be able to provide a thought that may be incorporated into the final product.
But, most importantly I feel really good about when a manufacturer provides me a product that meets my needs, but also meets other needs.
The last thing that I would like to mention in this particular sport that I am engaged in, the hunting portion, we need products like yours that can by used by the novice and the expert and yet help provide a humane harvest for the other animal involved.
And so for myself - i can say Lehigh Dave - 'thanks' for producing whay might prove to be a better ML widget.
Good morning Dave and welcome aboard...
I have read your post, actually read it twice in a row. You really bring out some interesting points.
I believe that your conclusion about the sportsman driving the developemnt and advancement of the sport are really spot on. I would also add that there are a few that really do not want the technology to advance. I am one of those that really enjoys both ends of the sport, I certainly could not be called a 'traditionalist' but i do enjoy shooting what would appear to 'traditional' but I am also one that loves the advancement of the muzzleloading as a shooting sport.
It has become somewhat of a more common practice that manufactures try to take advantage of the consumers ability to test product for them. I think it would be a natural that the manufacture might seek the thoughts of the consumer in product developement. It would seem logical that the people that might use the product might have input into it's development. It also seems to me that consumer input might serve a couple of purposes. 1. Some of the thoughts and ideals that we suggest might actually make the product better and therefore make it serve its purpose a little better. The done side to that is that, it is impossible to meet everyones wants or expectations, but i believe manufacturiers that listem might have a chance at a better overall product. 2. Is it possible that using us to help in development and testing might actually make the product less expensive to the consumer in the market place?
There are a lot of us that have tested end products for various companies and most of us are excited and willing to do this testing. It really is satisfying when we might be able to provide a thought that may be incorporated into the final product.
But, most importantly I feel really good about when a manufacturer provides me a product that meets my needs, but also meets other needs.
The last thing that I would like to mention in this particular sport that I am engaged in, the hunting portion, we need products like yours that can by used by the novice and the expert and yet help provide a humane harvest for the other animal involved.
And so for myself - i can say Lehigh Dave - 'thanks' for producing whay might prove to be a better ML widget.
05-31-2009, 07:06 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: A Manufacture's Perspective
Dave, I believe that is the most thought provoking post I have ever read. I know that the times I have been ask to check some thing out it has pleased me that some one thought enough of my opinion to ask.
To you all, this is one of the reasons that problems and our small innovations for things such as accuracy should be posted accurately.
Think about it. Lee
To you all, this is one of the reasons that problems and our small innovations for things such as accuracy should be posted accurately.
Think about it. Lee
05-31-2009, 07:06 AM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,747
RE: A Manufacture's Perspective
Welcome Dave - I am also glad to hear the the manufacturers are listening to the actual users of the products and using their input to improve them.
I sure wish more politicians would do the same thing. But I guess that is asking way too much.
I sure wish more politicians would do the same thing. But I guess that is asking way too much.
05-31-2009, 07:51 AM
#6
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fair Haven, NJ
Posts: 146
RE: A Manufacture's Perspective
Lehigh: I'mamazed at the expertize andknowledge willingly shared by members of this forum (and others).
I don't mind wading thruthe personality clashes and differences of option... I just have so much respect for these guys. It certainly makessense for a MZ manufacturer to take advantage of it.. either by quietly browsing or providing input.
Welcome !
I don't mind wading thruthe personality clashes and differences of option... I just have so much respect for these guys. It certainly makessense for a MZ manufacturer to take advantage of it.. either by quietly browsing or providing input.
Welcome !
05-31-2009, 08:18 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 986
RE: A Manufacture's Perspective
I agree that this is a good idea. The one big problem I see is what I experienced with GM when I worked for them. As the companies get larger they tend to become entrenched on the idea that they are so important and have such expensive help that there is no chance that an outsider could have any ideas that are better than theirs. I ran into a similar situation with Magkor when they tried to market the Black Mag Thundercharge. I did not believe that there was a large market for a set charge with a company selected bullet. Now that MDM has the reins they are still trying to market that idea. I have very good results with Black MagIII as a loose powder. Marketing was the downfall of Magkor. If MDM would concentrate on the loose powder only and fix the marketing problems I think it might have a chance. I talked with them at the NRA Convention but I think they did not believe me. I hope they can make the Black Mag work on the market as it would be my choice for my Knight KRB which will not shoot BM209. I think others with side hammer guns would also get on the Black Mag bandwagon if they could market and control the costs to be competitive. Limiting to loose powder might help to keep the costs down.
05-31-2009, 09:49 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: A Manufacture's Perspective
That's right Underclocked.. old "Sparky" was all your fault. That and the Accura. Have you cornered the market on all them rifles yet? 
Dave, a great post. Glad to have you here. I have said for years that the people in the field are one of the best resources for the manufacturer and designer. And come to think of it after reading your post, we are responsible for all this technology advancement muzzleloaders have made. Had it not been for people in the field wanting bigger and better things, I'd still be shooting an old Renegade. Of course, I still do shoot that old Renegade, and a few others to boot.
Dave, a great post. Glad to have you here. I have said for years that the people in the field are one of the best resources for the manufacturer and designer. And come to think of it after reading your post, we are responsible for all this technology advancement muzzleloaders have made. Had it not been for people in the field wanting bigger and better things, I'd still be shooting an old Renegade. Of course, I still do shoot that old Renegade, and a few others to boot.
