Sabotloader,
As you can see he's not just a guy making bullets in his back yard. I believe 5,000 bullets shipped to the FBI yesterday.

I don't know if there is really one definition of a fragmenting bullet. One example that I can think of is the Glazer Safety Slug. It is a polimartipped bullet that has shot inside the bullet that are sealed in by the tip.It is designed to enter afew inches and and fragment. I believe they were designed for sky marshals. They do not usually exit the body but do devistatingdamage to the internal organs making them safer to use on airplains and crouded situations.

The Glazer Safety Slug is also intended for home protection. Just in case you miss, it wont go through the wall and hit a family member or neighbor. Personally, I dont like to pick copper or lead or any other metal out of my game, especially when I am eating it. All the bullets I have sent into one type of medium or another shows me what I want in my ML. It wont be a jacketed bullet, that I know for sure.

I posted the definition of fragment on page two. Any bullet that meets that definition is a fragmenting bullet.

I agree.

My thoughts are thatthe terms fragmenting and fragmentation sometimes get misused. A fragmenting bullet in my thoughts is a bullet that separates from its jacket or other wise looses a portion of its mass. A fragmentation bullet is used where limited penetration is needed or required. (like an Air Marshall or other law enforcement situation) Definately not a bullet designed for hunting.

Please excuse me for my ignorance but since the Barnes TMZ bullet is in a sabot, how can it leave copper fouling? I have squeezed off quite a few Barnes rounds and have never found any copper fouling in my ML. All the bullets I have fired through my Omegahave been either all copper or copper jacketed. I have not removed any lead or copper from my bore. I thought that one of the purposes of a sabot (besides the "forgiveness" it offers for anot so perfect bore) it is to protect the bore for exactly that, lead or copper fouling. Does the bullet seperate from the sabot in the barrel before it exits?

Looks like people have different defintions for fragmention. Most bullets lose a portion of there weight upon striking game, but I dont consider that fragmenting unless they shed there core. I have shot a few deer where the bullet fragmented completely. When I found these deer the bullet pentrated the chest and then came to pieces. The internal damage was unbelivable, butwhat would have happened if the bullet had went thru the front shoulder first. Those deer might not have been found.What I want in a bullet is one that expands close to double its orignal diameter and passes completely thru. Most of my experience with fragmenting has come centerfire rifles. Until the last few years I have always used concials for muzzleloading, so there wasnt much to worry about fragmenation. Now I have beenusing powerbelts and shockwaves for the last couple of years. Took one with each, both were complete pass thru's. A person can't tell much about how a bullet performs on one or two heads of game with them, so I guess time will tell for me on the pb and sw.

Powerfisher

it looks like you are quoteing me as saying....

hope you check back and see that is not my statement...

Yeah, it was posted by lemoyne. And it's wrong.