Screwbolts

Hi Grouse45

They are the hard tips, Yesterday afternoon I looked again for the third bullet that goes to the lonely tip and all I can find so far is a bunch of fine lead fragments.

I will post a photo of the bullets that the rain last night uncovered, if there are any showing this morning that is.

Screwbolts

Only 150! Man you got to get out and do some more Hunting!! I have been hunting with cast Bootitz since 1975 and have never had the bad experience you wrote of. I have hunted exclusivly for more than 15 yrs with my own cast Boolitz. I started using snow to catch my Boolitz in 1979, that was when I discovered snow would stop them. I recast most every thing I get back from the snow.

No were in my first post did I find any fault with GDs or XTPs,

One of my Brothers gave me the XTPs to try he had gotten them for a lighter bullet for his wife to shot, less recoil, I couldn't convince him that a reduction in powder charge would also work with any of my cast Boolitz, she woun't take a shot at anything over 50 yards, and it has to be standing broud side.

Never Before in 30 years of picking up Bullets from snow banks have I ever seen such poor performance of a so called premium bullet as the SST that I showed.


Has everyone forgotten that before the early 1900's every bullet was made of lead ( can you believe there wasn't even a market for Wheel Weights yet) and didn't come with a copper condom wrapper? The copper Gas Check wasn't even developed till the first decade of the 20th century, ( that's the 1900's) The 30/30 was the first factory round developed for the first Black Powder Substitute, and it didn't originally shot a condom wrapped bullet either Gas checks weren't developed for another 10 yrs! None of the Buffalo were killed with a condom wrapper bullet! Are you aware that the Condom wrapped bullet wasn't wildly accepted by Hunters and shooters for many years.

spaniel

Now I'm confused. You've posted many times that you believe the 250SW "pencils through" at close range without expanding, now you're a believer that it is an explosive varmint bullet. These are two extremes, which one is it? I think it is hard to say a snowbank simulates a bullet hitting bone.

That being said, myexperience shooting both bullets at gamemany times is that the 200SW and 300SW both hold together much better compared to the 250SW, which does tend to open up more at closer ranges consistent with what is shown in the "snow bank test". I will note,however, that the two bullets recovered had a large mushroom intact core that would certainly have been lethal. I wouldn't read too much into not finding the third bullet unless it was actually the only bullet you ever shot in there which you did not recover. I find it a little hard to believe that it would disintegrate compeletely when the others are largely intact. The 250SW is not a bonded bullet and is prone to shedding its core once itopens a certain ways.

The XTPs look a lot like what I have recovered from animals. They look pretty, but inmyhands were a poorer choice ongame than the SW (the 200 mostly). They look pretty but the actual expanded diameter is not a great increase over the bullet diameter. I had a lot of deer run a fair distance with little blood. The SW generates much better wound channels because, as shown in these bullets, they open further. Even in wet paper 17inches penetration, that's more resistant than a deer and when was the last time you shot a deer that 17inches wouldn't get pass-thru? That's pretty wide and once it's through 17 or 20 inches, makes little difference. If you take non-broadside shots it may be a valid point.

I agree that the 250 is not the best choice though, I've never been a huge fan of that particular weight in the line.

I like the snow bank test more than the wet paper test,wet paper is just a convenientway to make them expand, it does not simulate anything you would shoot in the field. At least the snow bank gives low/moderate resistance like you might experience in an animal when you don't hit bone. I've got an idea to make some gel tubes with jello and large diameter PVC pipe and shoot some bullets into them later this summer if I get time.

gleason.chapman

Different media. In the close shots into ribs the sst tends to zip thru, the exception is and I believe Falon does this, he shoots for the shoulder blade. The 250 fragment in both wet newspaper and in ballistic gel, they are not as good a bullet as a 300g or the 200. Sorry for the confusion I may have caused.



Look at the postings of "the Left Hand here":

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Savage&thre ad=3370

Chap

spaniel

Good link, thanks. Actually, what I see in those gel tests is pretty acceptable performance for the 250SW and disturbing over-penetration by the TMZ. Any bullet that penetrates that far before fully opening and stopping is going to be most of the way or all the way through a deer before it's doing its best damage. Two feet of penetration may be good if you are shooting a cow, but on a whitetail I care about what happens in the first 12-18 inches.

It's really hard to translate this to the sub-2000fps impact velocities most guys here care about since these tests were done at 2600fps. You'd guess less expansion at lower velocities, but despite higher impact velocity this could possibly actually increase penetration distance if the expanded diameter is significantly smaller.

I think the big differences according to media used point out some inherent limitations of such tests, you always need to evaluate in the field to know what is going to happen.

I'm awaiting with curiosity the Leigh brass bullet game performance reports. I would never think of brass as a great bullet material for expansion but I've got an open mind.

gleason.chapman

Agree with you on the TMZ in terms of over penetration, my two favorite bullets penetrated (Nosler Partition and Barnes MZ) 17.5" and 22." in clay, 17.5" I think is near perfect (enough power to blow thru other side):


It is a fine line between expansion, penetration and shoot thru in bullet design, I don't think the pointy bullets do this very well except the PBE, take a look at this:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker%20BE%20TC%20SW%20shot%20into%20ballistic%20 gel.pdf

look at the explosive power of the PBE---- that is expansion and "Boom Flop" kill power, basically granade effect inside the animal WITHOUT fragmentation. So, anyway these are interesting things, I wanted pointy since I was going to shoot elk in Colorado, but I switched to a Barnes Origonal since I didn't fee comfortable with the fragmentation of the PBE on deer at close range. Chap

lemoyne

The cast bullet was use for a lot of years , when they develop guns that shot higher velocity they also found a need for better bullets. A lot of us used cast bullets in a wide variety of guns I still use them myself for reloading cartridge pistols. I used them in the first inlines I had and with black powder and the break away sabot with a 100gr of FF and a pure lead hollow point they worked reasonably well but with the advent of subs and better guns and higher velocity I had to go to a harder lead to keep from leading the barrel at that point I had a few bad experiences. If a person wants to use pure lead and keep the velocity down to where they get good accuracy and don't lead the barrel they will work fine, as a matter of fact I have yet to see much improvement on the PRB from a 54 cal when it comes to putting a deer down on the spot[ that's what I used from 1957 till I bought my first Thunder Hawk. I just believe that if you want or need a 200yd+ range that it takes something like a good pointed jacketed bullet at over 2000 ft per second. I have used the SW with good results up to 2100 fps on deer and while I believe that there are better terminal performance bullets like the Gold Dot and the Nosler partition also the Barnes all copper I hate to see them put down when they give those of us who like them for certain uses good results. The real test of a bullet is in the field. Lee

Screwbolts

You don't have to be a bullet caster to us what IMHO is a supperior Bullet, let harvester do the work for you:

http://www.harvestermuzzleloading.co...1&Itemid=3


Quote:

"I also tried cast bullets and once tracked a deer for around a mile before he went down he had a neat round hole through the middle of one lung and the front edge of the other and that was the last cast bullet I ever shot at deer."

Now I know that there is no bullet made that can compensate for a poor choice of shots, in this high angle raking shot, how could one possibly make a good judgment of the effects of a properly cast designed bullet will perform, considering such poor choices in shot placement!. This situation may be the only know situation where two wrongs may end up in a positive! You take a poor shot, but you use a grenade, now the grenade explodes in the first lung sending shrapnell threw out the lung cavity! Now I totaly understand your praise of the 250 gr SST!!