More on Montana X-treme
 

Guys, I've been reading the posts on this in here and had mine delivered yesterday. I'm waiting now on some nylon brushes in various calibers but in the interim, I cleaned a couple centerfires.
My method was to run some Hoppe's Elite solvent through the bore and let it set for a couple mins. (This is a copper and powder solvent.) Then I gave the bore a scrubbing with a bronze brush and another Hoppe's patch. Then dry patches until clean. I then ran a patch down the bore using MX Cowboy. On each occasion, I could not believe the crud that came off that first patch. I continued with the Cowboy solvent until the patches came out cleaned, then dried the bore with dry patches. I then treated the bore with MX bore conditioner.
I am definately going to use this stuff on my MLs. Like most of you I am fanatical about having clean guns. It just amazed me how dirty my 'clean' rifle bores were.

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

Your not telling me news.. I understand and probably had that same look as you, when that first patch of Cowboy Solvent went through the barrel. Now when I clean my rifles, I run one patch of the Cowboy Solvent and it picks up just traces of stuff. The second one is clean. I kind of like this stuff. I am still not convinced about its rust protection with just the Bore Conditioner. I think a gun oil might be needed also on top of it. BUT time will tell.

I have been so impressed with it, I cleaned up my .22 caliber Remington Fieldmaster pump rifle with a 4x Bushness scope on it. The pine squirrels are real impressed with the rifle too. But only for a moment... :D

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Well after being impressed with the way the MX Cowboy solvent did with my centerfires, I used it on my 45 Renegade. Most of you remember that this is a relatively new barrel and has less than 100 shots through it, mostly all with saboted bullets. It had always gotten a hot water bath/rinse followed by bore butter as did all my other MLs.
I just got done running a pot full of hot water through it to heat up the barrel and get rid of the bore butter. Took it back in and ran a couple dry patches through it. Then some patches of Butche's Bore Shine, dried, then a couple alcohol patches and dried again.
I put some Cowboy solvent on a patch and figured it was going to be black. To my surprise it was as clean as it was when it went in. So I ran a couple dry patches through it and treated it with the bore conditioner.
I'm putting another pot of water on the stove and do the same to my 50 cal. I know that has several hundred rounds through it. I'll relay the results later today.

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WOW!! I wish I had a bore butter barrel to check your results. So far I have been turning my rifles over to Montana products. I have been real happy with the results. But I still am not sure I want to turn all of them over.

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Dave - I just did the same routine with the 50 cal (this is an older GM LRH barrel - still has the old iron sights not the fiber optic) I think I got this barrel back around '98. I got absoultely the same results.
I guess the hot soapy water wash/clear hot water rinse and bore butter method isn't so bad.
This rifle has been sitting since November and even after running the first drying patch after the hot water rinse, it came out clean.
So as far as my MLs, the only benefit I can see using MX products is the amount of fouling between shots. And I won't know that until I get them out to the range.

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All I ever used on My ML's for almost 20+ years was Bore Butter. As you stated and I too gave them a Hot Water Bath then they were treated with BB. Since reading this ForumI changed to MX BC and MX Gun Oil. I have only treated my New Never Shot ACCURA's with the MX Products.
My first clean with the MX BC was done on my ACCURA, and the MX did have dirty (gray) looking patches after I cleaned the bore, a few more patches and they were spotless, mabey it was the oil applied at the factory that came out of them.
After reading this I got 2 of my older ML's that I have'nt shot in over a year (and both had the hot water bath, cleaned, then treated with BB and stored) I hot watered em, to remove the BB, then ran a patch of MX BC down the bore and they were clean. I DONT have the MX CS so I cant say for sure if just the MX BC did a good enough job to remove anything as I dont think it's a cleaner, just a conditioner? So I guess I'll get some MX CS and see if it pulls anything out of them.
I know some of you dont like the BB, but I have never had a problem with rust or flyers. But I usually only shoot most of my ML's a couple to a few times and then there cleaned and treated with BB. I dont go on marathon shooting seassions with them so mabey that's a reason for them being so clean too. And all I have ever shot out of all my ML's are sabots so mabey this is another reason for the barrels being clean.
I'll get some MX CS and reclean them 2 ML's and see if anything comes out and let you all know.But after using the MX BC and MX Gun Oil in my ACCURA's they come cleanalso so we'll see. As stated above by bronko, mabey the advantage of MX is just helping the occasional flyer and crud build up and fouling problem.BP

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

If you are having that good of luck with bore butter, perhaps you should keep using it. As I said, I don't like it, but that is my opinion. And I have not used bore butter for over fifteen years in a rifle.

I cleaned a different traditional rifle with the Montana X-treme yesterday. Now this rifle was treated well, and not really shot too much over the years. It was one I bought on sale and shot occasionally. But this one gave up just a gray first patch and then a clean patch. I patched that bore dry and bore treated it. It is shining really good now. It was protected with Sheath.

This is really getting interesting now. And more confusing to me..

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To all in general

While their has been a lot of peole condemn the use of BB and natural lubes I am not one of them, most people here know that I was a firm believer in the fouling reducing properties of BB and that I applied it to hot barrels for years and years, then when the T17 patches came out I switched to the use of those patches as they provided a more equal application of the lube. Somewhere along the line before the switch to T17 I also started using Slip 2000, a synthetic oil, with all the listed properties of MX-BC. This was used with and in combination with BB and T17. In all those years I really never had any rusting, accuracy, or build up problems with the use of these materials... I did on a rare occasion pull out a tobbacco stained patch when I went back to check old treated bores... at first it concerned me but when I looked carefully at it I really believed it was not rust it was residue being leached out of the pores in the barrel by BB or T17. I almost took it up to the chem lab at the University to have some college class check it for oxidation - never followed thru on that though. I still believe it was powder residue missed in my normal cleaning ritual.

But with my discovery of MX-BC - it has totally replaced my use of either BB or T17 for now, what might come in the future I am not sure. I am slow to move to something new but if it works I will move.

Side Note it also worked very well in my trap guns reducing the plastic fouling in the barrel and chokes - all of the above products

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

Some good info in this post. Here is a bit more. I took my MX Cowboy solvent and BC over to my buddy and asked him to run a test with his centerfires. (We both clean our MLs the same way.) I did this because he used Break Free CLP to clean his rilfes and 3 in one oil to protect the bore. He cleaned as usual and then ran a patch of CS down the bore. It came out clean. No residue on it at all. He repeated this with 2 other rifles and got the same result. Clean patches.
I guess the Break Free CLP is a good product also for removing fouling.

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

My conclusion using MX is this. I will continue to use BB in my flinters where I use black powder only. In my inline & percussion rifles where I use Pyrodex and saboted bullets, I will use the MX (until I see a problem developing). And in my centerfires, I will also use the MX.

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I think this is a good product. I am pleased with some of the results I had. I had treated my Knight Disc a while back. And actually that rifle was not dirty, the Montana Patches were light gray for the first and then clean. So today, I shot the rifle using Pyrodex RS pellets.

When I went to clean the rifle, I used Simple Green on a patch to take the major fouling out of the barrel. After two patches of that, I used a Montana X-treme Cowboy Solvent patch. It brought up a little more fouling. Then I dipped a brush in the solvent and scrubbed the bore. The next patch of Montana X-treme CS ... the patch was terrible.

I am starting to wonder if a lot of this black crud is coming off the brush, the range rod, and of course the barrel. But the first patch of CS was not all that bad until I brushed it. It took about four more solvent patches and then it was clean. So I ran some BC through it. That barrel shines like the day I got it. Really nice.

Also in the range the first three shots were all in a group for a change with this rifle. It normally threw the first one about an inch out. But this time is plugged them right in there. BUT.. it changed its POI. Now has the QR scope mounts shifts.. or what. It is not a lot mind you. Still I was shooting at 50 yards, and it was maybe an inch to the side. If you think of a clock its supposed to be hitting just outside a one inch bull at 12 o'clock, but instead it is at 11 o'clock.



I started with the center bull and that's 200 grain Shockwaves with two pellets. I think there are three or four hits there. I shot the rest of the box off I know.

Then I went to the lower left bull. I was shooting two pellets and 250 grain Barnes Expanders. That one in the bull is my fault. I shifted my POA to see if the scope was really that much on. And it is.

Then for kick (and I do mean kicks) I loaded three pellets and shot 250 barnes Expanders at the lower right bull. I was out of pellets now. Boy they go fast. But with 150 grains it did pretty good I thought.

Then I had some 405 grain Remington FP and orange sabot in the box, so I was loading 90 grains of Triple Seven and shooting them without swabbing at the upper left bull.

It was really windy and cold out there today, but I wanted to shoot and that's all that matters.

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

cayugad

I am 99% sure that the black is the result of rubbing the bore metal with a metal (bronze or brass) bore brush - weather the barrel is clean or not.

When you rub brass or bronze on about anything you wear away some of the softer metal and it tarnishes... everytime you push a rather tight brush down the bore you are wearing away metal from the brush... Add a little moisture on a patch and you are going to get a darkened patch.

Just my thoughts....

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Dave - I agree with Sabotloader. The directions on the CS bottle say to use a nylon brush. I just ordered a bunch of different cal. nylon brushes from Graf & Sons. Actually that is where I got my MX stuff. They were the cheapest place when you added in the shipping charges.

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That might explain why I get a black patch and others find little fouling. All I have is brass. I bought out Wal Mart when they had them on their year end. A dollar each...

At least you might have solved that question for me. Because until I use that brass brush the patches are clean. And once I stop they come clean real fast.

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

yall

OK - I called my local friendly gun shop and had him order 2 bottles of MX-Cowboy for me... can not stand the suspense to see if it works better than Butches or Barnes CR-10 that I normally use....

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Actually Sabotloader, I guess I should have told you directly instead of letting you try to "read between the lines". With my MLs I said I use the hot soapy water wash and clean hot water rinse, dry, Butch's Bore Shine, dry, bore butter.
When I poured the clear hot water and dry patches through this morning to remove the bore butter and then ran a patch of CS down the bore, it came out clean. (I got the same result with my 45 cal barrel with about 30 rounds though it as I did with my older GM barrel with hundreds of rounds through it.)
Also my friend who normally uses Break Free CLP also ran the CS down his centerfire bores and it came out clean.
So in theory, both the Butch's Bore Shine and the Break Free CLP are just as effective as the MX Cowboy Solvent. (Maybe moreso cause I believe the CLP will also remove copper.)

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bronko22000

Ya! kinda what I thought but I am always late to the party so I thought i would try anyway...

I do not use CPL in the bore because of the PFTE that is in it. I usually use a synthetic oil called Slip 2000

Just my thoughts - it is great for everything else though.

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Alright Sabotloader.. what is the PFTE? I use CLP for a lot of things. But I do not normally protect the bore with it.

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cayugad

Sorry Dave, PTFE is 'Teflon' and I really try to avoid Teflon in the bore... When you burn Teflon and oil together they produce an acid - can not remember which one for sure - but it will work on metal. It is also believed to be linked to loss of accuracy as it builds up in the barrel. That is one of the things that got my attention about MX products - they all clearly state no PTFE's

I read an article a while back (couple of years ago)that explained it all but now I can not find it at all now. Then talking to bench shooters at a competition in CDL they talked about keeping teflon out of theirtarget barrels... Now I realize our hunting barrels are not longrange target barrels and we are not making money with them shooting paper - but I just try to avoid it in the bore.

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Dave - just for fun today, I was bored so I decided to scrub out my Lyman GPH. I swabbed the bore with alcohol to get the BB out the a couple patches of Butch's and dried it. I ran some MX CS down the bore and let it sit a min or two and ran a dry patch down. Got some discoloration on the patch but nothing major. I wet another patch and swabbed the bore. I then ran a brand new bronze brush down the bore about 5 times. When I ran a dry patch down, it came out black. I kept dry patching until it came out clean then repeated with andother CS patch and the brush. Again it came out black. I called MX and Shane told me it shouldn't be coming from the brush. But it could be.
The reason that MX recommends nylon brushes is that some of the solvents react to the brass and bronze brushes. But he didn't think the CS did.
I am going to repeat this again when my nylon brushes come in.

RE: More on Montana X-treme
 

Well that would make sense as I use a brass brush. Now I am not scrubbing the bore as I know they are clean, and it is easy to clean the rifles. I would have shot today but a snow storm hit us, and it was real windy too.