bullet size
12-14-2008, 01:41 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Millersville, Md
Posts: 362
bullet size
Guys i have a question. Some of you may know that i use to use a firebolt ultra mag, now i am useing the kodiak pro mag. Both guns i used the same load and bullet. 100gr. pyrodex pellets and a .223 powerbelt. Both guns are extremly accurate with this load.
friday was shot gun season but took the kodiak. shot a buck at 7:30 am at 70 yards. waited to 9:30 am to track it. went to were i shot it and no blood but found lots of hair.
got help and started looking fo blood, foundnothing. my friend went to top of hill and found the deer. perfect shot right behind the shoulder and through the lungs. only blood was about 20 feet from the deer to the deer and it was alot.
anther deer came by about 3pm, this time at 150 yds. I shot the deer, it fell. i stayed still butafter about 10 min.the deer started trying to get up, dragged itself in briars. I Figured i would walk over and put the deer out of its misery. I started walking over and the deer hobbled up and started trotting away.
Had alot of blood were i shot but nothing i could track. looked for 2 hours till it got dark. i was on privately owned farm and was not allowed to go back sat and search.
exit hole on the 1st deer was rather small, little smaller then a quarter.
Not sure what i want to ask but do you guys think this was because of the small bullet weight i use? should iexperiment with larger weight bullets? Or just go with what i have been useing in the past cause it's proven accuracy? Can i still get the same deadly accuracy with a heavier bullet up to 150 yds? Or doesthe lack of blood to trackeven have anything to do with the bullet size?
friday was shot gun season but took the kodiak. shot a buck at 7:30 am at 70 yards. waited to 9:30 am to track it. went to were i shot it and no blood but found lots of hair.
got help and started looking fo blood, foundnothing. my friend went to top of hill and found the deer. perfect shot right behind the shoulder and through the lungs. only blood was about 20 feet from the deer to the deer and it was alot.
anther deer came by about 3pm, this time at 150 yds. I shot the deer, it fell. i stayed still butafter about 10 min.the deer started trying to get up, dragged itself in briars. I Figured i would walk over and put the deer out of its misery. I started walking over and the deer hobbled up and started trotting away.
Had alot of blood were i shot but nothing i could track. looked for 2 hours till it got dark. i was on privately owned farm and was not allowed to go back sat and search.
exit hole on the 1st deer was rather small, little smaller then a quarter.
Not sure what i want to ask but do you guys think this was because of the small bullet weight i use? should iexperiment with larger weight bullets? Or just go with what i have been useing in the past cause it's proven accuracy? Can i still get the same deadly accuracy with a heavier bullet up to 150 yds? Or doesthe lack of blood to trackeven have anything to do with the bullet size?
12-14-2008, 03:19 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
RE: bullet size
Your problem is probably the speed you are pushing the powerbelts. Either back down the charge to 85gr or so, or use a heavier one. Or switch to something more reliable.
I'm not saying powerbelts are a terrible bullet or anything, some people report great luck with them...at appropriate powder charges. But IMHO the range of good performance is relatively narrow compared to many of the options out there.
I'm not saying powerbelts are a terrible bullet or anything, some people report great luck with them...at appropriate powder charges. But IMHO the range of good performance is relatively narrow compared to many of the options out there.
12-14-2008, 03:32 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,081
RE: bullet size
First, congrats on the deer and sorry about the second one.
I have not shot any deer with the powerbelts but some shooters swear by them, others swear at them. FG on this forum is the resident expert on them and his recomendation is to limit the powder to around 80 grains, especially for close shots. The Powerbelts have a tendency to fragment or pancake on high speed close shots. For longer range they have slowed enough to hold together. The problem with light bullets is they lose their energy fairly quick and any speed advantage also drops pretty quick.
The truth is, a heavier bullet will shoot almost as flatout to the 150 yard range as the lighter bullet and will have more energy and thus be more effective on taking game, especially if your pushing it fairly hard. With the heavier bullet, you don't have to push them real hard because they will retain more energy simply because of the momentum they carry. Any bullet can be accurate, the trick is to find the powder load/bullet combo that gives you the accuracy you want and the performance you want on game.
Going to a 250 grain Barnes or Nosler will give you as good or better trajectory and better performance over the Powerbelts for a similar price per shot. Even the 300 grain bullets will shoot with similar trajectories and will have even more energy down range. Go get some bullets that others have found to be effective and do some post season testing, I'm sure you will find a load that is as accurate and should be more effective on the game your after, not to mention you will have some fun and get some extra practice. Good luck and keep us posted.
I have not shot any deer with the powerbelts but some shooters swear by them, others swear at them. FG on this forum is the resident expert on them and his recomendation is to limit the powder to around 80 grains, especially for close shots. The Powerbelts have a tendency to fragment or pancake on high speed close shots. For longer range they have slowed enough to hold together. The problem with light bullets is they lose their energy fairly quick and any speed advantage also drops pretty quick.
The truth is, a heavier bullet will shoot almost as flatout to the 150 yard range as the lighter bullet and will have more energy and thus be more effective on taking game, especially if your pushing it fairly hard. With the heavier bullet, you don't have to push them real hard because they will retain more energy simply because of the momentum they carry. Any bullet can be accurate, the trick is to find the powder load/bullet combo that gives you the accuracy you want and the performance you want on game.
Going to a 250 grain Barnes or Nosler will give you as good or better trajectory and better performance over the Powerbelts for a similar price per shot. Even the 300 grain bullets will shoot with similar trajectories and will have even more energy down range. Go get some bullets that others have found to be effective and do some post season testing, I'm sure you will find a load that is as accurate and should be more effective on the game your after, not to mention you will have some fun and get some extra practice. Good luck and keep us posted.
12-14-2008, 03:55 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: bullet size
ORIGINAL: DeerWhisperer
Guys i have a question. Some of you may know that i use to use a firebolt ultra mag, now i am useing the kodiak pro mag. Both guns i used the same load and bullet. 100gr. pyrodex pellets and a .223 powerbelt. Both guns are extremly accurate with this load.
friday was shot gun season but took the kodiak. shot a buck at 7:30 am at 70 yards. waited to 9:30 am to track it. went to were i shot it and no blood but found lots of hair.
got help and started looking fo blood, foundnothing. my friend went to top of hill and found the deer. perfect shot right behind the shoulder and through the lungs. only blood was about 20 feet from the deer to the deer and it was alot.
anther deer came by about 3pm, this time at 150 yds. I shot the deer, it fell. i stayed still butafter about 10 min.the deer started trying to get up, dragged itself in briars. I Figured i would walk over and put the deer out of its misery. I started walking over and the deer hobbled up and started trotting away.
Had alot of blood were i shot but nothing i could track. looked for 2 hours till it got dark. i was on privately owned farm and was not allowed to go back sat and search.
exit hole on the 1st deer was rather small, little smaller then a quarter.
Not sure what i want to ask but do you guys think this was because of the small bullet weight i use? should iexperiment with larger weight bullets? Or just go with what i have been useing in the past cause it's proven accuracy? Can i still get the same deadly accuracy with a heavier bullet up to 150 yds? Or doesthe lack of blood to trackeven have anything to do with the bullet size?
Guys i have a question. Some of you may know that i use to use a firebolt ultra mag, now i am useing the kodiak pro mag. Both guns i used the same load and bullet. 100gr. pyrodex pellets and a .223 powerbelt. Both guns are extremly accurate with this load.
friday was shot gun season but took the kodiak. shot a buck at 7:30 am at 70 yards. waited to 9:30 am to track it. went to were i shot it and no blood but found lots of hair.
got help and started looking fo blood, foundnothing. my friend went to top of hill and found the deer. perfect shot right behind the shoulder and through the lungs. only blood was about 20 feet from the deer to the deer and it was alot.
anther deer came by about 3pm, this time at 150 yds. I shot the deer, it fell. i stayed still butafter about 10 min.the deer started trying to get up, dragged itself in briars. I Figured i would walk over and put the deer out of its misery. I started walking over and the deer hobbled up and started trotting away.
Had alot of blood were i shot but nothing i could track. looked for 2 hours till it got dark. i was on privately owned farm and was not allowed to go back sat and search.
exit hole on the 1st deer was rather small, little smaller then a quarter.
Not sure what i want to ask but do you guys think this was because of the small bullet weight i use? should iexperiment with larger weight bullets? Or just go with what i have been useing in the past cause it's proven accuracy? Can i still get the same deadly accuracy with a heavier bullet up to 150 yds? Or doesthe lack of blood to trackeven have anything to do with the bullet size?
Chap
12-14-2008, 04:36 PM
#5
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boncarbo,Colorado
Posts: 9,186
RE: bullet size
If thats the 223gr Aerotip, you pushed it to the breaking point. Buy some 30gr pellets and use 1 50gr pellet and 1 30gr pellet for a total of 80 grains.
It sounds to me like the bullet on the first deer exited?
The second shot it easily a spine shot that had just barely nicked the spine. Ive seen 2 deer hit the same way and they did exactly as you reported.
You can switch to the heavier bullet like the 295gr Aerotip but you still have to limit yourself to 80 grains of powder as it will fragment with close range shots if you were to use 2 pellets.
If you want 2 pellet loads, use the 300gr Powerbelt platinum.
www.powerbeltbullets.com look at the BC chart to find how high you need to be @ 100 and where it will be at 150 yards. Usually around 3" high @ 100.
A quarter size exit hole is nothing to complain about. If the shot was high, then it will take longer for it to bleed. And a deer can cover A LOT of ground in a matter of a few seconds, Especially when the deer has been shot and its heart is pumping loads of energy through out its body.
It sounds to me like the bullet on the first deer exited?
The second shot it easily a spine shot that had just barely nicked the spine. Ive seen 2 deer hit the same way and they did exactly as you reported.
You can switch to the heavier bullet like the 295gr Aerotip but you still have to limit yourself to 80 grains of powder as it will fragment with close range shots if you were to use 2 pellets.
If you want 2 pellet loads, use the 300gr Powerbelt platinum.
www.powerbeltbullets.com look at the BC chart to find how high you need to be @ 100 and where it will be at 150 yards. Usually around 3" high @ 100.
A quarter size exit hole is nothing to complain about. If the shot was high, then it will take longer for it to bleed. And a deer can cover A LOT of ground in a matter of a few seconds, Especially when the deer has been shot and its heart is pumping loads of energy through out its body.
12-14-2008, 07:39 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,482
RE: bullet size
If you want to keep using powerbelts, I'd definitely go with a heavier bullet. IMO the 223 grain .50 cal PB is probably the worst choice possible. For your needs, the 295 grainer with 80 grains of powder or so would be a good bet - it'll still allow you to shoot out to 150 yards without too much trouble.
12-14-2008, 09:38 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: bullet size
Congratulations on the first one,and when it comes to the second one we hear this type story fairly often when it comes to PB's. Don't feel bad just don't repeat the mistakes. If for some reason you must use the very limited and expensive PB's use a 348 gr with 70 or 80 gr and don't shoot very far until you have master the arc with that lower velocity. There are a lot of good bullets available for the price you pay for the PB's for 150 yds and under I recommend the 250 gr Gold Dot for deer they are the best to open for sure and they are bonded and will stay together. If you want to pay the price the Barnes and the Parker are excellent bullets, I believe the Shock Wave to be the most accurate bullet available for most 1-28 twist rifles and I have had very good results with them, I used the XTP bullets for many years with excellent results and there are many more if you must use a conical the new Hornady FPB is by far the best and most accurate[ my opinion] and the Sabretooth has a much better design of hollow point and holds together better with a decant load than the PB's.
There are both upper and lower limits on each bullet and you are going to have much better results if you determine what those limits are for the bullets that shoot well in your particular gun and take that into consideration when you develop your hunting load. You can always get some help here. Lee
There are both upper and lower limits on each bullet and you are going to have much better results if you determine what those limits are for the bullets that shoot well in your particular gun and take that into consideration when you develop your hunting load. You can always get some help here. Lee
12-15-2008, 04:56 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: bullet size
ORIGINAL: MountainDevil54
i can disagree with the sabertooths being better. Especially with a short yardage shot.
i can disagree with the sabertooths being better. Especially with a short yardage shot.
Give us your opinion, do they fragement? Not penetrate?
Chap
12-15-2008, 07:20 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 3,869
RE: bullet size
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Been there done that except with 295g PB and 150g of 777 pellets. I came to this forum several years agoasking the same questions, in my opinion the PB fragmented and didn't penetrate the vitals on the 2nd shot. I then switched to 300g Nosler Partitions with 100g of loose 777 and a crushed rib sabot. Now I shoot a 300g Barnes MZ in my Omega. PB are fine for 1200-1400 fps "bow shots", however if you shooting faster than thosespeedsOR shooting into bone on the shoulder then the PB may not penetrate into thevital,therefore not killing the deer and not providing good blood trails. I loveBarnes MZ, Nosler Patitions, Speer Gold Dots, Barnes Origonalare excellent tough bullets.
Chap
Been there done that except with 295g PB and 150g of 777 pellets. I came to this forum several years agoasking the same questions, in my opinion the PB fragmented and didn't penetrate the vitals on the 2nd shot. I then switched to 300g Nosler Partitions with 100g of loose 777 and a crushed rib sabot. Now I shoot a 300g Barnes MZ in my Omega. PB are fine for 1200-1400 fps "bow shots", however if you shooting faster than thosespeedsOR shooting into bone on the shoulder then the PB may not penetrate into thevital,therefore not killing the deer and not providing good blood trails. I loveBarnes MZ, Nosler Patitions, Speer Gold Dots, Barnes Origonalare excellent tough bullets.
Chap