Do Shockwaves expand?
12-05-2008, 02:17 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
Go over to Cabelas and on the SW Product, read the 65 product reviews, here is the link:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat200005_TGP&id=0040853216233a&navCount=1 &podId=0040853&parentId=cat200005&mast erpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IJ&am p;rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233& amp;hasJS=true
here is one of the reviews:
Overall Rating:
1 out of 5 [/align]DON'T HUNT WITH, December 3, 2008
By Kushy from Fowlerville, MI
[/align][/align]
"These bullets look great on paper, but they do not perform well on game at all. I shoot a Remington 700 ML with a 24 inch tube, 100 grains of 777 loose FFFG (1950 fps), and 777 primers. My friends shoot omegas with the same powder, but they use 120 grains of loose (2200 fps). We laid down over 10 deer last year at ranges of 25-191 yards. Not one of these bullets (SST/Shockwave) expanded. Some shots hit shoulder bone, while other busted thru ribs. Also, I personally field dressed each of these deer and was not impressed at all by the internal damage. My .357 magnum shooting handloaded 180 grain XTPs does more damage to a deer. These bullets simply do not expand when they hit; futhermore, the lack of expansion leads to extremely poor blood trails. I swithced to Barnes Expanders 250 grain this season and couldn't be happier. The group size is still about 2-3 inches at 150 yards and the expander only drops about 2 more inches at this range as compared to the Shockwave. My wife shot a buck with the Barnes Expander and we had an exit wound that was about 2 inches in diameter. The internal damage rivaled a 30-06 wound channel. She pulled the shot, which resulted in a high hit from a treestand, but that bullet blew part of the backstrap into the chest, detached a tenderloin, blew the liver in 2 pieces, tore a huge hole in the diaphram, and destroyed the back half of both lungs. Her buck dropped and never moved a muscle. I shot a doe with the same load and same stand last year with a Shockwave. My doe ran 50 yards, with no blood, and an exit wound the same size as the entrance. By the way, the distance was 30 yards on both deer, which means the impact velocity is around 1850ish. According to Barnes, the Expander will open down to velocities around 1100 FPS. Shockwaves are a target bullet and most target bullets are FMJs. After testing these in the field, I would rather hunt with a 400 grain solid."
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No Expansion, December 11, 2007
By Hammercl from Illinois
[/align][/align]
"I used the 250 grain 50 cal. Shockwave Sabot this year in a CVA Electra for Deer Hunting in Illinois. I was using 150 grain of Triple 7 in the pellet form. The Sabot speed was right around 2,250 fps. I shot a (9) point Buck at 85 yards. The Sabot entered just behind the front left shoulder blade and travels completely through the entire inside of the buck exiting just in front of the right rear hip joint causing a lot of damage as it went through the stomach area of the deer but the Sabot did not expand at all. I was truly disappointed with the Sabot not expanding. Both the entrance and exit holes were the same diameter. I will be trying a different Sabot next year."
I think you know exactly how to use a SW and your doing shoulder shots which is exacly what they are designed for, these folks are not shooting shoulder shots and get some poor results.
Chap
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat200005_TGP&id=0040853216233a&navCount=1 &podId=0040853&parentId=cat200005&mast erpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IJ&am p;rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233& amp;hasJS=true
here is one of the reviews:
Overall Rating:
1 out of 5 [/align]DON'T HUNT WITH, December 3, 2008
By Kushy from Fowlerville, MI
[/align][/align]
"These bullets look great on paper, but they do not perform well on game at all. I shoot a Remington 700 ML with a 24 inch tube, 100 grains of 777 loose FFFG (1950 fps), and 777 primers. My friends shoot omegas with the same powder, but they use 120 grains of loose (2200 fps). We laid down over 10 deer last year at ranges of 25-191 yards. Not one of these bullets (SST/Shockwave) expanded. Some shots hit shoulder bone, while other busted thru ribs. Also, I personally field dressed each of these deer and was not impressed at all by the internal damage. My .357 magnum shooting handloaded 180 grain XTPs does more damage to a deer. These bullets simply do not expand when they hit; futhermore, the lack of expansion leads to extremely poor blood trails. I swithced to Barnes Expanders 250 grain this season and couldn't be happier. The group size is still about 2-3 inches at 150 yards and the expander only drops about 2 more inches at this range as compared to the Shockwave. My wife shot a buck with the Barnes Expander and we had an exit wound that was about 2 inches in diameter. The internal damage rivaled a 30-06 wound channel. She pulled the shot, which resulted in a high hit from a treestand, but that bullet blew part of the backstrap into the chest, detached a tenderloin, blew the liver in 2 pieces, tore a huge hole in the diaphram, and destroyed the back half of both lungs. Her buck dropped and never moved a muscle. I shot a doe with the same load and same stand last year with a Shockwave. My doe ran 50 yards, with no blood, and an exit wound the same size as the entrance. By the way, the distance was 30 yards on both deer, which means the impact velocity is around 1850ish. According to Barnes, the Expander will open down to velocities around 1100 FPS. Shockwaves are a target bullet and most target bullets are FMJs. After testing these in the field, I would rather hunt with a 400 grain solid."
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No Expansion, December 11, 2007
By Hammercl from Illinois
[/align][/align]
"I used the 250 grain 50 cal. Shockwave Sabot this year in a CVA Electra for Deer Hunting in Illinois. I was using 150 grain of Triple 7 in the pellet form. The Sabot speed was right around 2,250 fps. I shot a (9) point Buck at 85 yards. The Sabot entered just behind the front left shoulder blade and travels completely through the entire inside of the buck exiting just in front of the right rear hip joint causing a lot of damage as it went through the stomach area of the deer but the Sabot did not expand at all. I was truly disappointed with the Sabot not expanding. Both the entrance and exit holes were the same diameter. I will be trying a different Sabot next year."
I think you know exactly how to use a SW and your doing shoulder shots which is exacly what they are designed for, these folks are not shooting shoulder shots and get some poor results.
Chap
12-05-2008, 02:27 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
Here is the Midway link:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=488805
Here is some no so good expansion and long trailing jobs:
1)
[/align]Vince Stoyanoski of M, OK[/align]Date Posted: 11/3/2008[/align]Unfortunately I'm having to edit my previous post as it seems that T/C has changed something in their bullet. These bullets used to give good performance and tore up the insides, but this year out of 8 deer shot in our group with them, 6 were recoverd by us after leaving them sit for two hours and finishing them off with another load(they were still on their feet). Two of them were shot by other hunters a half mile away with perfectly placed shots through the vitals but nice clean holes in and out! The damage these bullets made were like they were hit with an arrow with a practice top. The only way to shoot the deer to get damage enough to drop them in a reasonable distance was to shoot them through the shoulder bone and spray bone fragments through the vital organs!! I'd give it zero stars now but that rating is not available. Gotta try to find a different load for next year now.[/align]
Was this review helpful? Yes| No
0 found it helpful | 1 did not[/align][/align]----------------------------------------[/align][/align]Wonder why this fellow wrote this, does he work for another ML bullet company? Most reports are great, but what do you do when you read the above? [/align][/align]Chap[/align][/align]
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=488805
Here is some no so good expansion and long trailing jobs:
1)
[/align]Vince Stoyanoski of M, OK[/align]Date Posted: 11/3/2008[/align]Unfortunately I'm having to edit my previous post as it seems that T/C has changed something in their bullet. These bullets used to give good performance and tore up the insides, but this year out of 8 deer shot in our group with them, 6 were recoverd by us after leaving them sit for two hours and finishing them off with another load(they were still on their feet). Two of them were shot by other hunters a half mile away with perfectly placed shots through the vitals but nice clean holes in and out! The damage these bullets made were like they were hit with an arrow with a practice top. The only way to shoot the deer to get damage enough to drop them in a reasonable distance was to shoot them through the shoulder bone and spray bone fragments through the vital organs!! I'd give it zero stars now but that rating is not available. Gotta try to find a different load for next year now.[/align]Was this review helpful? Yes| No
0 found it helpful | 1 did not[/align][/align]----------------------------------------[/align][/align]Wonder why this fellow wrote this, does he work for another ML bullet company? Most reports are great, but what do you do when you read the above? [/align][/align]Chap[/align][/align]
12-05-2008, 07:43 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Upstate New York-Broome County
Posts: 597
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
MOE-I shot 4 deer with 250gr SST.2 dropped 2 ran a long way. All were "good" shots. I went back to Noslers. 50%just don't cut it. Only my opinion based on my limited experience.
Charlie
Charlie
12-05-2008, 08:16 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
This is what I will say about some of those reviews. I read Cabelas reviews a lot and sometime they are good and sometimes they amuse me.
1) One guy says the deer traveled 50 yards but he was not impressed with the damage. The deer traveled 50 YARDS. That is hardly a far run and perfectly acceptable. If you want them DRT every time, use artillery!!!
2) Another claims they don't expand, entrance and exit same size but good damage in between. #1, no bullet recovered so you can't say for sure it didn't expand (see my pic of XTP). #2, if there is good damage in between and the deer drops in short order, what's the problem??
3) Another claims they don't expand, pencil through, and they let SEVERAL deer go 2 hours before finishing off with another load (STILL ON FEET). Buddy, if your deer is still on its feet after 2 hours, YOU STINK, not the bullet. You did NOT shoot it in the heart or lungs. You gut shot it and expect an exploding bullet of some sort to make up for your p!$$ poor shooting ability. No deer shot through the lungs with ANYTHING will be alive after 2 hours. I can buy poor blood trails, but this is evidence of just bad shooting and I cannot blame the bullet. Fifty or so deer I've shot with this bullet, maybe 10-15 of them shoulder shots, the rest though the ribs/lungs and none made it more than 100 yards. If this 2 hour stuff was the norm with a lung shot I'd have seen it!
I posted 2 pics of bullets I was able to recover because I shot them through the shoulder. This is not reflective of the majority of the deer I shoot with the 200SW, which are shot lower through the ribs/lungs and exit every time yet drop DRT or within a short distance. Hard to recover such bullets downrange. No, I cannot post pictures showing them expanded but I have a lot of dead deer that couldn't tell the difference!
The wife is out of town unexpectedly so she can't stop me from trying to fill my last 2 doe tags tomorrow morning!! I'll see if I can gather some more evidence...I just loaded the long-range Omega with a 200SW and the X7 with a 300 bonded SW.
1) One guy says the deer traveled 50 yards but he was not impressed with the damage. The deer traveled 50 YARDS. That is hardly a far run and perfectly acceptable. If you want them DRT every time, use artillery!!!
2) Another claims they don't expand, entrance and exit same size but good damage in between. #1, no bullet recovered so you can't say for sure it didn't expand (see my pic of XTP). #2, if there is good damage in between and the deer drops in short order, what's the problem??
3) Another claims they don't expand, pencil through, and they let SEVERAL deer go 2 hours before finishing off with another load (STILL ON FEET). Buddy, if your deer is still on its feet after 2 hours, YOU STINK, not the bullet. You did NOT shoot it in the heart or lungs. You gut shot it and expect an exploding bullet of some sort to make up for your p!$$ poor shooting ability. No deer shot through the lungs with ANYTHING will be alive after 2 hours. I can buy poor blood trails, but this is evidence of just bad shooting and I cannot blame the bullet. Fifty or so deer I've shot with this bullet, maybe 10-15 of them shoulder shots, the rest though the ribs/lungs and none made it more than 100 yards. If this 2 hour stuff was the norm with a lung shot I'd have seen it!
I posted 2 pics of bullets I was able to recover because I shot them through the shoulder. This is not reflective of the majority of the deer I shoot with the 200SW, which are shot lower through the ribs/lungs and exit every time yet drop DRT or within a short distance. Hard to recover such bullets downrange. No, I cannot post pictures showing them expanded but I have a lot of dead deer that couldn't tell the difference!
The wife is out of town unexpectedly so she can't stop me from trying to fill my last 2 doe tags tomorrow morning!! I'll see if I can gather some more evidence...I just loaded the long-range Omega with a 200SW and the X7 with a 300 bonded SW.
12-06-2008, 03:29 AM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
3) Another claims they don't expand, pencil through, and they let SEVERAL deer go 2 hours before finishing off with another load (STILL ON FEET). Buddy, if your deer is still on its feet after 2 hours, YOU STINK, not the bullet. You did NOT shoot it in the heart or lungs. You gut shot it and expect an exploding bullet of some sort to make up for your p!$$ poor shooting ability. No deer shot through the lungs with ANYTHING will be alive after 2 hours. I can buy poor blood trails, but this is evidence of just bad shooting and I cannot blame the bullet. Fifty or so deer I've shot with this bullet, maybe 10-15 of them shoulder shots, the rest though the ribs/lungs and none made it more than 100 yards. If this 2 hour stuff was the norm with a lung shot I'd have seen it!
+1
Yep, the search for the magic bullet that will turn a gut shot into a bang flop 100 percent of the time continues.
12-06-2008, 03:41 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
ORIGINAL: spaniel
This is what I will say about some of those reviews. I read Cabelas reviews a lot and sometime they are good and sometimes they amuse me.
1) One guy says the deer traveled 50 yards but he was not impressed with the damage. The deer traveled 50 YARDS. That is hardly a far run and perfectly acceptable. If you want them DRT every time, use artillery!!!
2) Another claims they don't expand, entrance and exit same size but good damage in between. #1, no bullet recovered so you can't say for sure it didn't expand (see my pic of XTP). #2, if there is good damage in between and the deer drops in short order, what's the problem??
3) Another claims they don't expand, pencil through, and they let SEVERAL deer go 2 hours before finishing off with another load (STILL ON FEET). Buddy, if your deer is still on its feet after 2 hours, YOU STINK, not the bullet. You did NOT shoot it in the heart or lungs. You gut shot it and expect an exploding bullet of some sort to make up for your p!$$ poor shooting ability. No deer shot through the lungs with ANYTHING will be alive after 2 hours. I can buy poor blood trails, but this is evidence of just bad shooting and I cannot blame the bullet. Fifty or so deer I've shot with this bullet, maybe 10-15 of them shoulder shots, the rest though the ribs/lungs and none made it more than 100 yards. If this 2 hour stuff was the norm with a lung shot I'd have seen it!
I posted 2 pics of bullets I was able to recover because I shot them through the shoulder. This is not reflective of the majority of the deer I shoot with the 200SW, which are shot lower through the ribs/lungs and exit every time yet drop DRT or within a short distance. Hard to recover such bullets downrange. No, I cannot post pictures showing them expanded but I have a lot of dead deer that couldn't tell the difference!
The wife is out of town unexpectedly so she can't stop me from trying to fill my last 2 doe tags tomorrow morning!! I'll see if I can gather some more evidence...I just loaded the long-range Omega with a 200SW and the X7 with a 300 bonded SW.
This is what I will say about some of those reviews. I read Cabelas reviews a lot and sometime they are good and sometimes they amuse me.
1) One guy says the deer traveled 50 yards but he was not impressed with the damage. The deer traveled 50 YARDS. That is hardly a far run and perfectly acceptable. If you want them DRT every time, use artillery!!!
2) Another claims they don't expand, entrance and exit same size but good damage in between. #1, no bullet recovered so you can't say for sure it didn't expand (see my pic of XTP). #2, if there is good damage in between and the deer drops in short order, what's the problem??
3) Another claims they don't expand, pencil through, and they let SEVERAL deer go 2 hours before finishing off with another load (STILL ON FEET). Buddy, if your deer is still on its feet after 2 hours, YOU STINK, not the bullet. You did NOT shoot it in the heart or lungs. You gut shot it and expect an exploding bullet of some sort to make up for your p!$$ poor shooting ability. No deer shot through the lungs with ANYTHING will be alive after 2 hours. I can buy poor blood trails, but this is evidence of just bad shooting and I cannot blame the bullet. Fifty or so deer I've shot with this bullet, maybe 10-15 of them shoulder shots, the rest though the ribs/lungs and none made it more than 100 yards. If this 2 hour stuff was the norm with a lung shot I'd have seen it!
I posted 2 pics of bullets I was able to recover because I shot them through the shoulder. This is not reflective of the majority of the deer I shoot with the 200SW, which are shot lower through the ribs/lungs and exit every time yet drop DRT or within a short distance. Hard to recover such bullets downrange. No, I cannot post pictures showing them expanded but I have a lot of dead deer that couldn't tell the difference!
The wife is out of town unexpectedly so she can't stop me from trying to fill my last 2 doe tags tomorrow morning!! I'll see if I can gather some more evidence...I just loaded the long-range Omega with a 200SW and the X7 with a 300 bonded SW.
Chap
12-06-2008, 08:04 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,482
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
I think you have to take some of those reviews with a grain of salt. Anyone can post those- they may be exaggerating, they may be flat-out lying, or they may be telling the truth. Who knows??? People are much more likely to blame the "bad bullet" than themselves for being a crappy shot. A deer shot through the heart/lungs with ANY .45 cal bullet, regardless of expansion, is not going to be alive 2 hours later as long as there was adequate penetration.
I do agree with Chap though, that the SST/SW is not designed for, or is necessary for eastern woods deer hunting, where the vast majority of deer are taken at ranges under 100 yards. Where it shines is long range shooting- situations where the terrain is open, you can't get very close, and it's not a big deal if the deer runs off 50 or 75 yards after the hit. Now in the thick stuff, I'd be using a hollow-point bullet that expands & penetrates well and leaves a good blood trail- i.e. Barnes Expanders or the like.
I do agree with Chap though, that the SST/SW is not designed for, or is necessary for eastern woods deer hunting, where the vast majority of deer are taken at ranges under 100 yards. Where it shines is long range shooting- situations where the terrain is open, you can't get very close, and it's not a big deal if the deer runs off 50 or 75 yards after the hit. Now in the thick stuff, I'd be using a hollow-point bullet that expands & penetrates well and leaves a good blood trail- i.e. Barnes Expanders or the like.
12-06-2008, 09:04 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,282
RE: Do Shockwaves expand?
Go with a Barnes Expander or Nosler Partition bullet. They are not as expensive as you think. I have used the Barnes Expander TEZ a couple of times now and the result has been exceptional, damage and blood trail second to none. I have had no blood trail due to poor expansion with perfectly placed shots with other bullets. I shoot Shockwaves and Powerbelts at paper at the range.