I haven't seen any deer since last Sunday, but this morning the weather finally cooled off a little and the deer seem to be roaming around again. I got out atthe crack of dawnthis morning and a group of does busted me on the way to my stand. I was excited that the deer were back in my area since just a few days ago all the neighborhood dogs seemed to be using my spot as a convention center. After I got settled in, nothing much seemed like it was going to happen. I heard shots all around me for a while, but as the morning went on, the shots got fewer and farther between. Then after a few hours I heard one guy about a quarter mile away shoot, and it sounded like he had a hang-fire.After thatat around 9:00 I saw this doe sneaking up on me. I watched her for a while to see if it looked like anything was following her, and if she had any fawns. She looked nervous, but wasn't looking like anything was following her and she had no fawns. That's when I shot, and heard her crash close by.

Details;
The shot was 50 yards, quartering away. The bullet entered her around mid rib area and exited low through the opposet shoulder. The entry hole was really good, about the size of a quarter, but the exit wasn't great. From the hole in the shoulder bone (which broke but had a near perfect hole through it) looked like the bullets hadn't expanded too much. It took out both lungs and the heart, the blood trail waspretty good. She ran about 60 yards after the shot and piled up.

I was using the Omega Z5, 250g Shockwave bullets with the yellow tip and black sabot over 100g Pyrodex pellets with a Winchester 209 primer.

Wiggy

Cool! and Congrats....

I always like it when an Omega barks...

Thanks for the reading also....

Gotta work in the shop today or I would be out amoungst them also... Tomarrow - I will be there.

Wiggy.. that is a nice big doe. Do you suspect that although the bullet did the necessary amount of internal damage to kill the doe, perhaps it never hit bone until it finally exited the shoulder. This would account for the small entry and exit wound while at the same time the good blood trail. It sounds like excellent shot placement to me. Congratulations on the nice deer. Lots of good eating off her.

That exactly what I was thinking. You're very intuitive, Cayugad. The bullet didn't hit a rib on the entry side, but there was a large "torn" flesh woundaround hole. On the button head I got last week, there was little blood on the ground even though both lungs were hit. This time the blood trail was there (due in my mind to the heart being punctured), and it was consistant, but not "heavy". There was nothing at the site of the shot, she didn't start bleeding for about 7-8 yards or so. After that it was obvious that she was dripping well on one side and spurting out the other. Deep, stumbling tracks on one side also indicated to me that she was running on three legs. Over all, I'm thinking that even though these bullets are effective and accurate, I don't think they offer the kind of expansion, raw knock down power,or over all performance that other bullets could.

Our early muzzleloader season ends tomorrow, so it's a little late in the year for me to be switching to another bullet, but next year I'm going to try some different brands.Or I may just cast my own bullets, I haven't decided yet.

Wiggy

I would really like to agree with you... I think we get so caught up in pointy bullets and high BC's - trying to match what we were able to do with our centerfire guns... But as long as we are willing to pay the price for those and shoot them manufacturersare going to be willing to make them advertise them to meet our dreams and sell them to us.

I have suggested many times that the purchase of these bullets to be shot in a ML at ML velocities and ML ranges (ranges that a normal human might shoot) is not necessary. The are some great bullets out (non-pointy) that will work at these velocities and ranges with a lot better terminal performance.

I applaud the fact that you are taking the time to compute thisinformation and work it through your mind to possibly question their terminal performance.

I really prefer a bullet that creates a dramatic shock - a shock so devastating that the animal can not react into the flight mode. It does not always work but for the most top it has worked well for me...

OK - I'll get off the soap box now... sorry

Congrats on the nice big eastern doe.

Sabotloader,

I couldn't agree more. Comparing the Shockwaves to other bullets I have shot is interesting.These Shockwavesobviously work, and they work a lot better than the bullets that used to come with package muzzleloaders, but they don't bring out the full performance in a muzzleloader. A 50 caliber is an amazing thing (I learned that in Iraq[8D]) and they have all the potential in the world to out perform many centerfire rifles at reasonable ranges (100-200 yards). The trick is to find a bullet that will expand well at the velocity that it shoots best in your rifle. To explain this better, my Omega shoots the 250g shockwave most accurately with 100 grains of pyrodex at a velocity of around 1863FPS. The Shockwave may expand better at a higher velocity, but if I load in more powder to get the extra velocity for the increased terminal performance of the bullet, I would loose accuracy. Once you find the bullet that performs well at the velocity that your rifles shoots it most accurately, then you obtain the best performance from your muzzleloader. Now, I just have to try out some different bullets before next year to get that magic balance.

Until then, I'll keep using the Shockwaves now that I have a good idea of their limitations.

Wiggy-this is the same problem I had with SST(SW) bullets.If you do not hit bone on entry,you do not get great expansion. I killed 4 deer with the 250 SST and had to do extensive tracking on 2. The other 2 went down quickly. I never lost a deer using them,but some places I hunt,I need to drop them fast. I got caught up as Sabotloader said,with pointy bullets.I have gone back to Nosler Partition HG 260. I really don't know why I stopped.

Charlie

Congrats on the nice doe and good story! It's always nice for me to live vicariously through others in hunting since I am stuck in the big city 363 days out of the year

Wiggy

I know I am thinking backwards, but this is what I have found... the shockwaves work very well at longer ranges an in fact they expand at the longer ranges and really do the job they were intended to do. I have asked myself why and what I have come with is - what is the difference? the difference is velocity!! They are traveling slower and now they have time to expand instead of penciling their way through. The other varible is to shoot a thicker skinned animal - the bullet will work much better there than it does on a whitetail - again the bullet velocity is slowed considerably by the thicker skin... So therefore - I am backwards when comes to shockwaves - the big sin is to much velocity - if your shot had been @ 150 yards it would have expanded perfectly. I'm nuts I know but everything I have read is leading me down that path.

Another example I shoot .451/260 grain Nosler for whitetail - Iget equal expansion with this bullet from 20 yards to 175 yards. Shooting that across my chrono I am shooting it on average 1860 fps. I have shot deer with it through all the ranges and the expansion remains constant...

Here is the pic of a recovered Nosler... When I got the bullet out there actually was a little lead left in the top section of the bullet but later when I cleaned it up the lead dropped out in the in the sink- so it actually would have weighed slightly more.



I have gotten this same expansion with a much less expensive bullet also. The Speer .452/250 grain Gold Dot reacts much the same way.




Both of these bullets creat a tremendous amount of hydrostatic shock as they pass through the vitals area - just turn it to jello. This shock is so great the animal tends to drop right away even on a arginal shot.

Sorry about running off on a tangent