Powerbelts
 

after ML hunting last year and being disappointed with the powerbelts i figured i'd try them 1 more year. i also went from a 245gr to a 295gr powerbelt in hopes i would get better penetration and projectile retention. last year both of the 245gr powerbelts (150 grains of pyrodex) i shot deer with fragmented and had little penetration. both shots were ranged at approximately 75 yards.

this year i went with 295gr powerbelts in hopes of better bullet performance. i shot a 10 point at 45 yards in the neck and the powerbelt once again fragmented into nothing and did not exit the neck. before i get the "use less powder" lectures, my groups with the 3 pellets are phenominal(sp?). i use the pellets for the convienance and am happy with the accuracy. my friend also uses the pyrodex pellets but he only shoots 100gr (2 pellets) with the 245gr powerbelt.

last sunday he shot an 8 point in the butt (by accident, he was aiming for the neck) that was walking straight away from him at 45 yards. not arguing the ethical shot placement, the powerbelt only had about 5 inches of penetration and once again fragmented into nothing. the bullet did not even hit bone and left VERY little blood trail. we did end up giving the buck a couple hours to bed down and hopefully die inwhich he did not.

after approximately 1 hour of tracking, we jumped him up in palmetto's and he ran about 50 yards, stopped and looked back at us. the 8 point was shot again, this time in the neck (standing in tall palmetto's and the only shot we had was a neck shot to try and finish the animal off). the powerbelt did not completely penetrate the bucks neck but did drop him in his tracks.

with these scenario's in mind, shooting powerbelts with magnum loads and standard loads with the same results. i have one more muzzle load hunt this year and no time to re sight my muzzle loader in with another load. after this year, my remaining powerbelts will be thrown in the trash and i will be shooting something different. the ONLY good thing about the powerbelts, is they seem to be extremely accurate (which is needed due to their poor bullet performance).

RE: Powerbelts
 

100gr pellets is to much! How many times have i said that? The first person i helped out with that was Saxman when he shot a deer with the 245 and 2 pellets.

Next time take some pics so i can take a look at them and see where exactly they hit and may have come into contact with.

Use 80gr 2f pyrodex with that 245 and even the 295 and you'll be whisling dixie.

If not, send those left over Powerbelts to me as my brother and father use them on mule deer in thier sidelocks.

If you want to use a magnum load for 50 yards shot and enjoy the recoil try the 300 or 338 platinum.

RE: Powerbelts
 

Sorry to hear of your problems with Powerbelts. I personally have never shot a deer with them, so I have no way that I can offer a suggestion to improve your performance.

Its hard to go down in powder when your getting great accuracy with something. The fragmenting is probably due to the high speeds of the bullet, but then if they do not shoot good with a small charge, they are of little use that way.

Good luck in the future hunts with them.

RE: Powerbelts
 

Can't believe you didn't do your homework and come up with a better bullet/powder combo for this year. I can't understand why you still go with 150 grs of pellets. This is obviously too much powder for this bullet. I howeverr have only shot up to about 95 grs in my gun. Everytime I go higher, my groups really get bad. I on the other hand am having a hard time grouping the 295 gr. powerbelts using any powder combinations. They will shoot all over the place in my NEF Sidekick. Now I shoot a saboted 300 gr STP and it is deadly in my gun.

RE: Powerbelts
 

my muzzy has very little recoil shooting 150 grains it is comparable to my .25-06. also, i have always understood pellets have less "power" compared to loose powder. so if you are shooting 2 pellets, it is equivalent to 85-90 grains of loose powder.

RE: Powerbelts
 

in weight maybe.

150gr loads are just to much and not needed for short range shots. A honda civic is going to impact deeper into a cement wall doing 80mph than a lamborghini doing 150 mph.

It would be interesting to see your results if you were to drop the charge down to 80gr loose pyrodex and give it another round with either the 245 or 295.

The slower moving powerbelt will offer deeper penetration.

RE: Powerbelts
 

Tried powerbelts my first year BP hunting and found out as well that they fragment. Only shoot Barnes now.

RE: Powerbelts
 

i stuck with this combo for the accuracy. it is extremely accurate in my Traditions Pursuit Pro. i don't have the luxery of walking out in my back yard and playing with different loads. the closest range to me is about 1 hour away and a hassle to use with a muzzle loader due to the time it takes to shoot, load and clean. it is a public range with yahoo's who just like to shoot and not sight in...if you know what i mean. with my limited time and range access, i wanted to try the powerbelts one last time with a larger bullet to see how well they performed. unfortunately the only way i can see how well they perform on a deer is by shooting a deer. the public range dirt mound is so full of lead from 30+ years of use you can not find the bullet you just shot to see how well it mushrooms and performs.

RE: Powerbelts
 

i never know what my shooting distance will be. i don't hunt food plots or designated stands time after time. i move around alot with a climbing treestand, so in the morning myfurthest shot maybe 40 yards and i'll move to another location in the afternoon to where i can shoot 150 yards. see my delima? i'm looking for a happy medium to where i have good trajectory (least amount of bullet drop) with good penetration. nothing worse to me than having alot of "hold over" on a deer if i need to shoot 150 yards. i don't like to guess in situations like that.

RE: Powerbelts
 

CamoCop

If you have lost confidence in them then I would suggest you look to something else. FG is correct in that if you are going to shoot them then you need to drop your charge to about 80g but if you don't have confidence in your bullet then it's pointless to shoot it.

That being said, in my opinion there are MANY much better bullets out there to shoot. If finding bullets is not easy in your area, most stores will at least have some Shockwaves and XTPs. They are not as nice as say a Nosler or Barnes but they are very effective killing bullets. Also, a LOT cheaper.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I hope you find something that works better for you and you can redeem yourself. ;)

RE: Powerbelts
 

Been there, done that, same results. Accuracy and dead are two different subjects,my suggestion is to go to a Nosler Partition with Crushed Rib sabot, BarnesMZ, TMZ with supplied sabot or Barnes TSX 45843 with Crushed Rib sabot or a Speer Gold Dot with a CR sabot, the CR is easy loading. Try the new Hornady FPB, since there would be bore size.
Chap

RE: Powerbelts
 

40 yards to 150 yards is exactly my hunting area. 245 or 295gr with 80gr pyrodex will be around 7" low @ 150 when sighted dead on at 100. Its simple, if you use a scope, cross hairs go right onto its back and down goes the deer.

I understand that 150grains shoots great, I had a Winchester that was the same exact way and i used to use 120-150gr pyrodex rs loose loads but the 2 deer i shot with those loads both exited and were 146 and 148 yards away, the proper range intended for magnum loads.

Pure lead just can not be pushed that fast when the target is so close, the hornady great plains bullet will do the same thing, the flatnose great plains will not do it *as much* The problem with the powerbelts and the GP bullet is they both share something.... Pure lead, To deep of hollow point.

I honestly would like to see the results with an 80gr Pyrodex Charge.

RE: Powerbelts
 

Bingo, Barnes---good bullet, no fragmentation, 100% wight retetion, shoot thru with 250 or 300g, expansion down to 800 fps, since huge hollow point, great choice, great bullet for even oblique shots into lungs, will shoot thru bone. Boom Flop. Interesting you only shoot Barnes now, what is your logic for why Barnes only?Love yourname VaDeerKiller, I noteyou didn'tname yourself Va Deer trailer or worst yet deer wounder, the Barnes gets ya there no problem.
Chap

RE: Powerbelts
 

The bullet can redeem itself, he can redeem himself by doing exactly what he has done "admit he has a problem" and getting to another bullet better for his type of shooting. Accuracy is king, but penetration is queen, and they both have to be present to have a happy marriage of terminal performance.
Chap

RE: Powerbelts
 

I can understand your delema. Distances can be a pain when it comes to BP muzzy guns. If this is the case, I would stay with the three pellets and maybe an SST or Sockwave (same bullet). They are good for short and long distance shooting. And they seem to load easy, at least in my gun.

I understand abpout the public range. Sorry to hear your problem. Not much in the suggestion department there!

RE: Powerbelts
 

another friend also suggested the Shockwave to me. he said it shoots flatter in his muzzy and holds together MUCH better.

RE: Powerbelts
 

The SW would be a better bullet than the PB when your shooting 150g of powder no doubt. No need for that high a charge really, but if their are accurate for you at that charge, then that is good.
Chap

RE: Powerbelts
 

When I shoot the Shockwave I use 95 grs of Pyrodex RS and this is how I manage to create great groups.

But If you want to go out to 150 yds, go with the three pellets. It should work for you. that bullet should give great penetration and expansion.

RE: Powerbelts
 

I've never shot PowerBelts. I've never shot Shockwaves (other that at paper). I have shot Gold Dots.

I've seen lots of reports of PBs blowing up and not penetrating, and SWs penciling through and not expanding.

In my (admattedly limited) experience, a 300 grain Gold Dot wil always expand, always penetrate, and always hold toghther. They are my hunting bullet of choice.

RE: Powerbelts
 

Pretty sure 100 gr pellets is equivalent to aprox 80gr loose.

Too many other choices that do not have such limitations.
And far less expensive conicals (if you want to shoot them) that can be sized to fit your barrel.

Steve

RE: Powerbelts
 

That is not what I have heard Steve. As I understand it, 100 grains of pyrodex pellets are supposed to equal 100 grains of loose pryodex. That is assuming we are talking 100 grains of VOLUME black powder equivalent in the loose powder. 80 grains of loose pyrodex (by volume) should be less of a charge than 100 grains pellets.

Possibly the confusion is over 777, which is supposed to be 15% more powerful than pyrodex or blackpowder if you are comparing loose to loose. In other words I have been taught:

100 grains pyrodex (volume) loose = 100 grains pyrodex pellets.

100 grains 777 (volume) loose = 115 gr pyrodex loose

However, the 777 pellets are supposed to be less powerful than the loose so:

100 grains 777 pellets = 100 gr pyrodex loose = 100 grains pryodex pellets = 100 grains loose blackpowder.

Back on subject:

FACT: 150 grains of any powder will not get good terminal performance out of powerbelts, so DO NOT use them if you need to use that much powder. Accuracy means nothing if the bullet don't get the job done when it gets there.

Sabots will definately hold up better to faster velocites, so that may be your best choice. However, the two new conicals might deserve a look. Both Hornady's FPB's and the new Thor bullet should hold together better than powerbelts at faster velocities.

You and I may just look at it differently. My muzzy guns are for 150 yards or less. I have other guns if I want to shoot farther. Out to 150 yards, you don't need more speed. For example: I used 90 grains of BH 209 (equivalent to about 105 gr of pyrodex) and the 350 grain Hornady FPB for elk this year. 2 inches high at 100 yards and 5 inches low at 150 yards. That load went through the shoulder blade, broke a rib, took out the top of the heart, broke another rib and lodged under the skin. Elk went 50 yards. Plenty of power and plenty flat shooting for out to 150 yds. Smaller sabots should fly even flatter. And I guarantee you that you can find an accurate load in the 100 grain powder range.

If you want to shoot 150 grains, then do what makes you happy. There are other options though.

RE: Powerbelts
 

My mistake. It is the T7 pellets that are derated.

RE: Powerbelts
 

I tried powerbelts for the first time at the range this weekend. My biggest complaint is that these bullets are advertised as being much easier to load than sabots. They say that you can fire several before having to swab the barrel. I did NOT find this to be the case at all. Even putting a second bullet down an unswabbed barrel took some effort. No way one could get a third in there. In this respect they are NO different than the sabots I have shot. I find there claim on this to be a bunch of bunk!

RE: Powerbelts
 

I believe the bullet package comes with load suggestions and I think ther max is 100grn and to me that is to much.
My gun likes the powerbelts and when i use the proper charge they do great.I hjave a friend with the same gun and his does not like them,Go figure.

I have learned that for me at least.I have no need of a 150 grain charge with any bullet,I have used this charge with the SW 250 per the instructions on my Nikon Omega scope but I backed down to 100grn and also got great preformance.

Maybe it's just me and I am no expert but I think they are trying to sell morepowder by suggesting this charge and the recoil is a factor.You can have a great bullet and great gun but if you cant put it where it needs to be,WHY?

If you choose to try the powerbelts do some testing and back those charges down,I think you will find they work fine.

RE: Powerbelts
 

You can not use standard loads with PB's got to use loads like you would set up for a 12 year old.
Try some sabertooth bullets from Harvester they are very similar except they hold together better, and the new FPB from Hornady is even better. Lee

RE: Powerbelts
 

The MFRslist 150 gr charges so they can call their guns "magnums" and also so they can claim high velocities and energies. If you can claim greater performance than the next guy, you'll sell moreproduct.

The powder companies sure don't mind it either.

RE: Powerbelts
 

Power Belts are in most cases an excellent easy loading bullet, which really enhances their popularity, especially to beginning shooters. Another advantage of the PB's is they do shoot accurately out of most guns, again creating another illusion. Power Belts are essentially nothing more than an elongated round ball - would you shoot a PRB with 150 grains of powder? Would you expect a PRB to perform on big game shot by the average person @ and beyond 150 yards, and even for some beyong a 100 yards?

As most everyone knows PB's are nothing more than a shrunken full bore conical that upon shooting will obturate to the bore. They are constructed of a soft lead as most conicals are and they are available in candy coated copper to help alleviate lead fuling in the bore for the lack of lubrication as a normal full bore lead conical has. BPI/Power Belt has recognized the weakness of the orginal PB's, added a ballistic tip and now have added a platimum coating to help strengthen the bullet.

Power Belts do work on game if shot in a reasonable manner, but I think the biggest failure of a lot of us hunters is to take in account that lead shot fast into a hard object shatters - uness there is enough lead to withstand the hard object. Shooting light weight PB's with a heavy charge to increase velocity will eventually catch up with you. If you choose to shoot them, and 1000's do - then choose a heavier PB and power it for optimal performance - not velocity. The old BP addage of "shoot a bigger bullet or make a big hole"certainly applies when shooting PB's.

I choose not to shoot Pb's because there are such better alternatives, other than fall down easy loading, on the market today. I must admit also when I first started shooting ML's - I to thought the PB as the end all answer for a ML - their performance in the field on animals required me to search for something better. My first move from PB's was to sabots and pistol bullet - once I learned I could load and shoot a sabot nearly as easy and with much more velocity and penetration - the move was easy. Then when Idaho required all lead full bore conicals - I thought I would have to return to PB's... but I instead eprimented with just about every lead conical I could find on the market. I never could find one that I really liked shooting from a 54. Then UC pointed me in the direction of Bull Shop - Dan's bullets are far better than PB's and load as easy as a sabot - shoot accurately and the 400+'s do not blowup - nor do they pancake.... + and for me this is important I can shoot them at greater velocity than a PBof equal weight and they do not come apart.

Just my case against shooting PB's...

RE: Powerbelts
 

I have not used anything other than 225gr powerbelts in my 45cal 700 Remington and they have worked great for me. On most of the closer range shots, the deer went down, dead, right there. Could be more of a shot placement problem.

RE: Powerbelts
 

SL - great post!!


Steve

RE: Powerbelts
 

going to the NRA in a bit with the bro in law to sight in the optima. I am setting him up with 80gr Pyrodex P and the 348gr HP for mule deer. I am going to let him try a few 90gr shots but i have a feeling that he wont feel to comfortable with the recoil.