Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
07-08-2008, 05:30 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: saxman1
I fell pray to the advertising hype(which I am prone to do) and bought the Nikon Omega BDC scope for my Encore and picked up some SW 250's per the scope reccomendation for the BDC and 150grn charge.
I have yet to try it.I knew less then than I do now and that seems like allot of shoulder punisment.
I fell pray to the advertising hype(which I am prone to do) and bought the Nikon Omega BDC scope for my Encore and picked up some SW 250's per the scope reccomendation for the BDC and 150grn charge.
I have yet to try it.I knew less then than I do now and that seems like allot of shoulder punisment.
We all are learing. I bought my Savage with the same ideas in mind as you did your Encore(shoot 200 yards, aero type head bullets--less cleaning). You really only get about and extra 25 yards with a higher BC bullet, and if we had just done the ballistics on the bullets we had, we could have done that. However it is fun to learn about these bullet design theories and why they do what the do. John Nosler when he invented the Nosler Partition started a whole new ballgame:
Note also the thinner structure at the top of the bullet, which is what Sabotloader said that our Nosler would expand on MEAT, not on bone. The SW takes bone to expand reliability (good hunters who know say they take high shoulder shots every time), that is why I didn't shoot them last year, even when they were the most accurate bullet in my Savage. So reread Al Marion's article again and see why he believes what he believes. Why does he shoot hard cast bullets with large frontal area?Why doesn't the SW expand realiability in meat (thru the lungs shots), therefore havinglittle splast effect because no mushroom or large frontal area of the bullet (many have said they have found SWs that they could "shoot again"--is that good?---NO, no splash effect).These are very interesting things in my opinion and trust me we all arelearning---even Dr. Powerbelt is learning.
Best Wishes,
Chap
07-08-2008, 05:32 AM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Scott,
We all are learing. I bought my Savage with the same ideas in mind as you did your Encore(shoot 200 yards, aero type head bullets--less cleaning). You really only get about and extra 25 yards with a higher BC bullet, and if we had just done the ballistics on the bullets we had, we could have done that. However it is fun to learn about these bullet design theories and why they do what the do. John Nosler when he invented the Nosler Partition started a whole new ballgame:
See this and see below:
ORIGINAL: saxman1
I fell pray to the advertising hype(which I am prone to do) and bought the Nikon Omega BDC scope for my Encore and picked up some SW 250's per the scope reccomendation for the BDC and 150grn charge.
I have yet to try it.I knew less then than I do now and that seems like allot of shoulder punisment.
I fell pray to the advertising hype(which I am prone to do) and bought the Nikon Omega BDC scope for my Encore and picked up some SW 250's per the scope reccomendation for the BDC and 150grn charge.
I have yet to try it.I knew less then than I do now and that seems like allot of shoulder punisment.
We all are learing. I bought my Savage with the same ideas in mind as you did your Encore(shoot 200 yards, aero type head bullets--less cleaning). You really only get about and extra 25 yards with a higher BC bullet, and if we had just done the ballistics on the bullets we had, we could have done that. However it is fun to learn about these bullet design theories and why they do what the do. John Nosler when he invented the Nosler Partition started a whole new ballgame:
See this and see below:
07-08-2008, 07:57 AM
#33
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
The SW takes bone to expand reliability (good hunters who know say they take high shoulder shots every time),
Not my experience at all. I have killed over 20 head of hogs and deer with the SST/SW with no problems at all. With one exception, all were one shot kills: A follow up shot was requiredwhen the bullet brokethe shoulder and off side leg of a big buck. I consider myself a "good" hunter and the 250 grain SST works well for me. I normally do not takeshoulder shots except on very big hogs.
IME: Sometimes the 250 grain SST/SW leaves an exit hole, sometimes not. In those cases where there was an exit hole it was over .75" in diameter: This tells me that the bullet expanded.An exit holematters not to me because my shots are picked carefully and the animal is not going to go very far.The best bullet in the world will not turn agut shot into a bang flop every time.
I keepseeing complaints about SST/SW bullets on these boards. They are divided equally between those who claim the bullet zipped on through without expanding and those who claim that the bullet blew up.
Chronographs, ballistic programs and BDC scopes are just spiffy great things.One had better verify the point of impact at 100, 150 and 200 yards. A friend just found out that his BDC scope is not calibrated to the recommended load for his gun.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: "Distrust and verify."
Your mileage may vary.
07-08-2008, 08:31 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hayes, Va.
Posts: 2,332
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
Chap, you remeind me of a science teacher I had in HS. He made my head hurt too. No kidding Chap, you are a wealth of knowledge on this subject. The only problem is I need to decipher it so I can read it in english. 
07-08-2008, 08:34 AM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
I started out using cast and sized lead bullets with my first inline, then went to 250 gr XTP, iwent to the Gold Dot 250 gr and the 200gr SW[50/40] for the last 3 years. During the time I used the cast lead I took 6 deer had to trail all of them between 50 and 150 yds, I took over 20 animals with the XTP and had to trail one bear over 100yds with the SW and Gold Dots the 7 kills I have made were all bang flops. My own conclusion is accuracy and placeing the hit in the right place has at least as much to do with how far the animal goes after being hit as the bullet as far as deer and boar go when you get into animals over about 350 pounds it is more difficult to get enough of what ever it takes to get a bang flop. A good example is the 380 pound bear shot 2 inches over the top of the heart [my normal bang flop shot] and still had to track him 130 yds. I think accuracy ,then knowing exactly where to place the shot, then the bullet and then the speed and energy of the bullet are all important and in that order. I took 7 deer in our town hunt with a bow that does not develope 25 foot pounds and never had to track any of them 50 yds. Sorry for being so long winded but we talk a lot about bullets and powder and I did not want the newer people to get the idea that the expensive bullets or powder were a cure all. Lee
07-08-2008, 04:33 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: falcon
Not my experience at all. I have killed over 20 head of hogs and deer with the SST/SW with no problems at all. With one exception, all were one shot kills: A follow up shot was requiredwhen the bullet brokethe shoulder and off side leg of a big buck. I consider myself a "good" hunter and the 250 grain SST works well for me. I normally do not takeshoulder shots except on very big hogs.
IME: Sometimes the 250 grain SST/SW leaves an exit hole, sometimes not. In those cases where there was an exit hole it was over .75" in diameter: This tells me that the bullet expanded.An exit holematters not to me because my shots are picked carefully and the animal is not going to go very far.The best bullet in the world will not turn agut shot into a bang flop every time.
I keepseeing complaints about SST/SW bullets on these boards. They are divided equally between those who claim the bullet zipped on through without expanding and those who claim that the bullet blew up.
Chronographs, ballistic programs and BDC scopes are just spiffy great things.One had better verify the point of impact at 100, 150 and 200 yards. A friend just found out that his BDC scope is not calibrated to the recommended load for his gun.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: "Distrust and verify."
Your mileage may vary.
The SW takes bone to expand reliability (good hunters who know say they take high shoulder shots every time),
Not my experience at all. I have killed over 20 head of hogs and deer with the SST/SW with no problems at all. With one exception, all were one shot kills: A follow up shot was requiredwhen the bullet brokethe shoulder and off side leg of a big buck. I consider myself a "good" hunter and the 250 grain SST works well for me. I normally do not takeshoulder shots except on very big hogs.
IME: Sometimes the 250 grain SST/SW leaves an exit hole, sometimes not. In those cases where there was an exit hole it was over .75" in diameter: This tells me that the bullet expanded.An exit holematters not to me because my shots are picked carefully and the animal is not going to go very far.The best bullet in the world will not turn agut shot into a bang flop every time.
I keepseeing complaints about SST/SW bullets on these boards. They are divided equally between those who claim the bullet zipped on through without expanding and those who claim that the bullet blew up.
Chronographs, ballistic programs and BDC scopes are just spiffy great things.One had better verify the point of impact at 100, 150 and 200 yards. A friend just found out that his BDC scope is not calibrated to the recommended load for his gun.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: "Distrust and verify."
Your mileage may vary.
You have good results with them, and you trust them, that is all that counts. I am just reporting what I have read, you help balance thethread by giving your experience, which counts a lot.I am just giving my logic as to why I didn't use them,and I stand by my logic on a theoritical basis. Most of my thinking has come from reading, not "field experience" with all the different bullets. Consider what Bryce Towsley says:
Best Wishes,
Chap
07-08-2008, 04:43 PM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: rafsob
Chap, you remeind me of a science teacher I had in HS. He made my head hurt too. No kidding Chap, you are a wealth of knowledge on this subject. The only problem is I need to decipher it so I can read it in english.
Chap, you remeind me of a science teacher I had in HS. He made my head hurt too. No kidding Chap, you are a wealth of knowledge on this subject. The only problem is I need to decipher it so I can read it in english.
Best Wishes Rafsob,
Chap
07-08-2008, 05:04 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: lemoyne
I started out using cast and sized lead bullets with my first inline, then went to 250 gr XTP, iwent to the Gold Dot 250 gr and the 200gr SW[50/40] for the last 3 years. During the time I used the cast lead I took 6 deer had to trail all of them between 50 and 150 yds, I took over 20 animals with the XTP and had to trail one bear over 100yds with the SW and Gold Dots the 7 kills I have made were all bang flops. My own conclusion is accuracy and placeing the hit in the right place has at least as much to do with how far the animal goes after being hit as the bullet as far as deer and boar go when you get into animals over about 350 pounds it is more difficult to get enough of what ever it takes to get a bang flop. A good example is the 380 pound bear shot 2 inches over the top of the heart [my normal bang flop shot] and still had to track him 130 yds. I think accuracy ,then knowing exactly where to place the shot, then the bullet and then the speed and energy of the bullet are all important and in that order. I took 7 deer in our town hunt with a bow that does not develope 25 foot pounds and never had to track any of them 50 yds. Sorry for being so long winded but we talk a lot about bullets and powder and I did not want the newer people to get the idea that the expensive bullets or powder were a cure all. Lee
I started out using cast and sized lead bullets with my first inline, then went to 250 gr XTP, iwent to the Gold Dot 250 gr and the 200gr SW[50/40] for the last 3 years. During the time I used the cast lead I took 6 deer had to trail all of them between 50 and 150 yds, I took over 20 animals with the XTP and had to trail one bear over 100yds with the SW and Gold Dots the 7 kills I have made were all bang flops. My own conclusion is accuracy and placeing the hit in the right place has at least as much to do with how far the animal goes after being hit as the bullet as far as deer and boar go when you get into animals over about 350 pounds it is more difficult to get enough of what ever it takes to get a bang flop. A good example is the 380 pound bear shot 2 inches over the top of the heart [my normal bang flop shot] and still had to track him 130 yds. I think accuracy ,then knowing exactly where to place the shot, then the bullet and then the speed and energy of the bullet are all important and in that order. I took 7 deer in our town hunt with a bow that does not develope 25 foot pounds and never had to track any of them 50 yds. Sorry for being so long winded but we talk a lot about bullets and powder and I did not want the newer people to get the idea that the expensive bullets or powder were a cure all. Lee
What was you logic/thinking for leaving the cast bullet? No expansion? Too much shoot thru? Shooting them too fast/hard? Whydid you go to an XTP? Then why did you go to a GD and also a SW. Do you use the SW for long range? Whythe 200g SW and not the 250 or the 300? Give us your wisdom.
Best Wishes,
Chap
07-08-2008, 06:37 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: rafsob
Chap, you remeind me of a science teacher I had in HS. He made my head hurt too. No kidding Chap, you are a wealth of knowledge on this subject. The only problem is I need to decipher it so I can read it in english.
Chap, you remeind me of a science teacher I had in HS. He made my head hurt too. No kidding Chap, you are a wealth of knowledge on this subject. The only problem is I need to decipher it so I can read it in english.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/product-news/publication-mentions/battlin-bullets/
Chap
07-08-2008, 06:48 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: Thompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets
ORIGINAL: gleason.chapman
Falcon,
You have good results with them, and you trust them, that is all that counts. I am just reporting what I have read, you help balance thethread by giving your experience, which counts a lot.I am just giving my logic as to why I didn't use them,and I stand by my logic on a theoritical basis. Most of my thinking has come from reading, not "field experience" with all the different bullets. Consider what Bryce Towsley says:
Best Wishes,
Chap
ORIGINAL: falcon
Not my experience at all. I have killed over 20 head of hogs and deer with the SST/SW with no problems at all. With one exception, all were one shot kills: A follow up shot was requiredwhen the bullet brokethe shoulder and off side leg of a big buck. I consider myself a "good" hunter and the 250 grain SST works well for me. I normally do not takeshoulder shots except on very big hogs.
IME: Sometimes the 250 grain SST/SW leaves an exit hole, sometimes not. In those cases where there was an exit hole it was over .75" in diameter: This tells me that the bullet expanded.An exit holematters not to me because my shots are picked carefully and the animal is not going to go very far.The best bullet in the world will not turn agut shot into a bang flop every time.
I keepseeing complaints about SST/SW bullets on these boards. They are divided equally between those who claim the bullet zipped on through without expanding and those who claim that the bullet blew up.
Chronographs, ballistic programs and BDC scopes are just spiffy great things.One had better verify the point of impact at 100, 150 and 200 yards. A friend just found out that his BDC scope is not calibrated to the recommended load for his gun.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: "Distrust and verify."
Your mileage may vary.
The SW takes bone to expand reliability (good hunters who know say they take high shoulder shots every time),
Not my experience at all. I have killed over 20 head of hogs and deer with the SST/SW with no problems at all. With one exception, all were one shot kills: A follow up shot was requiredwhen the bullet brokethe shoulder and off side leg of a big buck. I consider myself a "good" hunter and the 250 grain SST works well for me. I normally do not takeshoulder shots except on very big hogs.
IME: Sometimes the 250 grain SST/SW leaves an exit hole, sometimes not. In those cases where there was an exit hole it was over .75" in diameter: This tells me that the bullet expanded.An exit holematters not to me because my shots are picked carefully and the animal is not going to go very far.The best bullet in the world will not turn agut shot into a bang flop every time.
I keepseeing complaints about SST/SW bullets on these boards. They are divided equally between those who claim the bullet zipped on through without expanding and those who claim that the bullet blew up.
Chronographs, ballistic programs and BDC scopes are just spiffy great things.One had better verify the point of impact at 100, 150 and 200 yards. A friend just found out that his BDC scope is not calibrated to the recommended load for his gun.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan: "Distrust and verify."
Your mileage may vary.
You have good results with them, and you trust them, that is all that counts. I am just reporting what I have read, you help balance thethread by giving your experience, which counts a lot.I am just giving my logic as to why I didn't use them,and I stand by my logic on a theoritical basis. Most of my thinking has come from reading, not "field experience" with all the different bullets. Consider what Bryce Towsley says:
Best Wishes,
Chap
