Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

To make a long story short, I am in the market for a new muzzleloaderdue to a burglary. The burglary took all 5 of my guns (muzzleloader, 2 glocks and a special pupose Remington 11-87) and ammunition. I owned the CVA Kodiak.50 Cal Mag and was happy with the preformance.Icurrently have the choice down to the following three: TC Omega, TC Triumph and theCVA Kodiak Pro. I was hoping people could give me their opinions on these three guns. Also, it appears the TC guns recommend the Sabots, but I have always liked the Powerbelts. Anybody have any experience with the TC guns and Powerbelts? I realize I will have to work up some loads in the final gun to see what it likes, but any help would be appreciated to shorten the learning curve.

I have learned a great deal about muzzleloading and enjoyed it more because of the help on this forum.Therefore, I was looking to see what experience everybody has had and what you would recommend.

Thanks!

RE: Market for a new gun
 

Also, on new guns, does everyone here recommend the 1 shot and clean theory for the first 10- 15 rounds? I have always done this on my guns, but was wondering if it is just a theory with no evidence.

Thanks,

RE: Market for a new gun
 

If you are going to shoot Powerbelts I would stick with the CVA or get a Knight TCare Great guns but with the QLA they don't seem to like Conical Bullets I would also look at the NEW CVA ACCURA Looks like a nice rifle also.

Ron

RE: Market for a new gun
 

A lot would depend on that hunting situation you face. If it is long range shooting then you would want a sabot rifle. Or a real good conical rifle like a White. Sabots are a good choice for long range and T/C and Knight make great sabot shooting rifles.

Also since this is a new collection your starting because some dirty dog (I am being kind in my words here) decided to help himself to your old collection, you might want a gun to do it all for you and not need another rifle. For that the Omega or the Triumph would be my choice. Great customer service, great dependability, and their track record is excellent. Don't go cheap on the new gun. Get a top of the line. It is all you would ever need. The put a good scope on it. You should be all set for all seasons.

Get to a store and shoulder them. I shouldered the Triumph and could not get low on the stock for open sight shooting comfortably. Although I played with a Pro Hunter and about walked out of the store with it... :D:D

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

My suggestion would be to get to a store where you can handle all three of them. I personally buy my guns largely on the basis of feel. I like the feel and functionality of the Triumph the best of the three you mentioned. If you're going to shoot powerbelts or other conicals, then as suggested you might want to lean towards CVA-although a couple of guys on here don't have problems shooting conicals in their TC's. I guess it's hit or miss-no pun intended.

You asked about the cleaning, I highly recommend the new powder that has come out Blackhorn 209. If you shoot it, cleaning between shots in not needed. Any other of the substitue powders yes, I would recommend you swab between shots to get the best accuracy you can. But w/Blackhorn I can shoot all day and still get as good of groups when I leave as when I got there.

Cayugad made a very good point though. If you're set on shooting conicals buy a White. I've never heard of a White that won't shoot them very well.

Good luck on your new purchase!

RE: Market for a new gun
 

I agree.... my Omega loves the 250gr shockwaves, but does not group consistantly with Powerbelts.

RE: Market for a new gun
 

Hey Kathwacckkk, sorry about the loss. With respect to a break-in procedure of fully cleaning the barrel between shots for the first ten (or more) shots, I fully believe in it anddo it withevery new gun I buy.

For cartridge guns, I follow the three step procedure recommended by Precision Shooting Magazine. http://savagearms.com/cs_barrel.htm For muzzle loaders, I use Hornady Great Plains bullets and modify the cleaning procedure to one suited for muzzle loaders (clean completely with soap and water - dry with alcohol).

RE: Market for a new gun
 

If you want a rifle that will shoot an wide assortment of projectiles, CVA is a great way to go. A member on my forum just ordered the CVA Accura "New model" from midsouthshooters for $288 in blue/black. We're all waiting to see how it does for him. www.cva.com to check the new Accura out.

RE: Market for a new gun
 

Don"t leave out the Encore great rifle with option of centerfire crtg

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

My recommendation is to buy the TC Triumph, cause it is easy to clean, accurate and shoots excellent.I have an Omega, but I would buy the Triumph today, they didn't haveit when I bought my Omega, basically it is an "upgraded Omega", speed breech, etc, you know the deal. I also recommend you to not shoot the PBs, and shoot either Barnes MZ, TMZ, Nosler Partitions or Speer Gold Dots. You don't need a tough bullet on "bow shots", but raking shots or shots not well placed you need to shoot thru bone and not fragement. PB will only shoot "low power" (<1400 fps), so they don't fragment. My personal experience with PB is terrible and so I can't recommend them, many have other experiences, butdo a search on "Powerbeltfragments" and you will see what I mean. Now do aGoogle search on "Barnes fragments" or "Nosler Partition Fragments" and see what ya find. Fragmentation leads to non-penetration and non-penetration leads to non-lethal hit.
Chap

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

www.Ganderspowerbeltforu.powerguild.net and we'll take care of you there:D Powerbelts is the main topic there and we need Powerbelt hunters to join our field test for this years hunting seasons. A lot of guys going to be shooting the 270g platinum.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

If you want to stick with powerbelts, I would recommend going with a CVA product - they are geared toward shooting powerbelts well. Also, in my experience, CVA makes very good shooting rifles that are a bargain. You don't get the fit and finish you do on a TC or a Knight, but they generally shoot good.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

not just powerbelts, but with a very good assortment of conicals.

Thats why i never bought any of the other stuff. I stick with what will shoot what i need.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

I tried it - very informative and supports what the majority feel and say.

Steve

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

try cabelas too. more positive than negetive. Chap doesnt understand that you can not push an all lead conical in the 295g range with 150g pellets and have to hold together. Also doesnt understand that 150g pellets isnt and never was intended for close range shooting.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Gander, what doesn't he understand?

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Doesnt understand that magnum charges were never intended for short range shooting. Now, if you want to use magnum charges, do like powderbelt says, match the bullet to the powder charge and to the distance you'll be shooting.

If i were using mag charges and my max distance was lets say 75 yards and possibly a lot closer like 30 yards. I'd use atleast the 338g Platinum or the 348 copper series. Brutal recoil and a waste of powder but some feel they need it.

I feel that i need 110g ffg goex in my great plains, but thats because it groups the best.

Actually, i think the 300g platinum would do well for shorter range and mag charges.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Chap says: I'd say he understands them very well.
Steve

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

They can be pushed much faster than 1400fps. You just cant push them at MAGNUM charges at a deer at 30 yards away. Like ive said before, my 295g and 245g powerbelts driven by 150g LOOSE powder and 120g Loose powder did excellent on the deer that i shot from 148 and 146 yards away.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Just my experience Gander, I know you feel otherwise. I am reporting my results and recommendations, just as you are. The person who asks the question gets to make the decision what they will use in their new gun. I shot them, I know for me they are not the bullets that hold together at high speeds, therefore I will not shoot them nor will I recommend someone asking for advice on new guns and bullets to shoot them. Give them your shooting experiments and let them make the determination. The facts will speak for themselves, appears the new Platinuum are a bit tougher and don't pancake out as bad at 100g. Most guys want to shoot 100g of pellets in an inline, so they need a bullet that won't fragement, in my personal experience that is a Nosler Partion or a Barnes or a Speer Gold Dot in my opinion. Your free to give your opinion and let the buyer determination what he wants to use. Chap

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Are you saying that the loads you used at 148 and 146 yds would not be good at 30?
I would never carry a load that would not be effective at close range - there are too many options
that allow everything from pointblank to 150 or more to even consider such a thing.
Chap has listed some.
I have taken several deer from 5 yds to 156 with 80 grns T7 and 460 gr BS conicals with great proformance.

Steve

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

SteveBNy

Now that you have said it, and it wasn't me that brought it up - but it really seems pretty silly to carry a load that was not good from 10 to 175 yards. Sure most often you can plan for the approximate range you might shoot but WHAT IF? I would just a soon be ready and that does not mean a 150 grain powder load - but it certainly means shooting a bullet that will perform all the way through the possible range and for me that eliminates the power belt... For me even the 460 Bullshop is marginal to 175 yards not because of power or blowup but drop... but there is no doubt I could make that shoot with my 90 grain T7-3f load - and if the conditions were right - right to me....

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

There ya go Steve!!
80g triple 7 and a 223-245-270Plat-295 = deadly at point blank on out to however far you can shoot!!

150+ yard shooting is quite a challenge with open sights. Its doable with a good target with a good back ground color thats easy to make out but when those mule deer are standing at the bottom of a creek bed in oak brush and grass/sage up to their bellies, its damn hard!

My X-150 was sighted in that year for 200 yard shooting and i could have taken a 165 yard shot but it was just to hard to make out. Plus i had put on a cheap $15 set of plastic sights. DOH!

The big slugs like you shoot, the 460's i noticed are accurate as heck, especially that 385g paper patched bullet shooting Apex i sold Corey. That sucker loved them. But recoil just wasnt comfortable for me.






Thankfully i wont be hunting those areas anymore! :D

I should have it easier this year but who knows.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

So is the BS at 1/3 the price.
Or Shockwaves at nearly 1/2.

Options are good.

Steve

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Yeah but i can buy mine right off the rack and buy a very wide assortment of bullet weights. Sabots arent even an issue for me, My state does not allow them and if i could use a sabot, it wouldnt be the shockwave.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

If I had to shoot a conical (and I do by choice when using my Whites) I use a 460 gn in my .451, 85 gns of T72f and 498 gn in my .504, 85 gns of T7. 185 yds is my longest shot out of my .504; a pair of 160-165 yds for the .451. The all lead conicals performed well! I would not hesitate on a 200 yd shot with either; I know the ballistics of each and have practiced at that distance as well. So many better choices than the expensive Powerbelt... IMO.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Sorry this got so far off from the original question.

Most get by with Powerbelts in their TC, Saxman is one of them who likes them in his Encore and hopefully will be using the 270g platinum IF they shoot well. So far it doesnt look like TC's are liking the new Platinums. Its a throw a coin up in the air and hope the rifle you bought will shoot powerbelts or any conical with acceptable accuracy.

Im from Colorado and we're restricted to open sights, conicals and loose powder "No smokeless" and Powerbelts for me are always easy to find, well stocked even at small town stores and they come in a big variety of bullet weights. 175- 500+ grains. Been using them since late 2001, Maybe early 2002, memory is a bit fuzzy on that. But my first real muzzleloader "first was a cva blazer made in 1987" was a TC .50 Renegade and i used to shoot the 295 AT with 90g Pyrodex RS and that sucker would just shoot them all day long. Keep in mind the TC conical issue is mainly with their inlines and the QLA set up. I had a TC Hawken a little while back that shot the same load only with 80g pyrodex select. The only rifle i've owned that i havent shot a Powerbelt through is my .54 lyman great plains rifles :D and my .54 smoothbore.

Knight is another rifle that seems to shy away from the Powerbelt bullet due to the difference in bore size. Corey on the other hand seems to be getting very good accuracy out of his older model knight.

So to cut things short, the only way to know if the rifle will shoot the bullet you want to use, is to buy the bullet, a couple different powders, a few different primers and get to the range.

Besides powerbelts, Patched round balls are the only other bullets i use to hunt with.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Thanks for all the advice. I plan on getting down to Cabela's this week to shoulder the guns. That being said, I am leaning towards the Triumph. Seems like a great gun and have not heard anything bad about it. Also, being purchased from Cabela's always give me a little confidence as I have only had great luck with their customer service.

I only evershot powerbelts out of my old CVA Kodiak with great results. As some of you may recall, I did shoot through a tree and the bullet held together and still killed the deer. That being said, I am not so loyal asI will not switch to the best shooting round out of the gun. I have always started with manufacturers recommedations and made modifications from there to maximizethe load.I will willstart off Shockwaves and go from there. Guess I get to go to the range and shoot for a while.

Thanks again for all the advice.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Triumph from Cabelas is a great choice and it is wise to follow the manufacturer recommendations on load, which will be the SW. They are accurate as heck, of the 250g and the 300g SW, over on the Savage forum TheLeftHand has shot them into ballistic gel, I have placed them onto PDF so you don't have to have a user account or they will never be archived, here are the results:

http://tinyurl.com/6nz6yu

just click on the 300g SW and the 250g SW link, that should help you make up your mind what your goona buy to shoot in the gun, I would buy both since in that way you don't have to make another trip to the store and you have them. In general the performance of the 300g is better, if your going to go the BDC scope and shoot the 250 then buy the bonded, their are higher cost, but stay together better. Hope that helps you make an informed decision. Best wishes for this season and watch shooting thru those trees, :->.

Chap Gleason

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Besutiful country Gander, kinda makes you wanna shoot a 300 WinMag or 7mm doesn't it? However the MLers are much more fun and challenge to get in close. Chap

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Havent hunted big game with a centerfire since i was 13-14 years old.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

I think it was more of a comment on how beautiful the country was not that you should use a centerfire...[&:]

And why do you have to register to just peak at your site ;)

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Correct, mighty beautiful country. Chap

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

I have it set up like Modernmuzzleloader has theirs. You can see what the site offers but if you want to get into the topic to see, gotta register.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

Hold and clean a TC triumph and the decision is made.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

I might agree with you....After we have a clear report on the SS CVA Accura 45 and 50 cal;)

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

i'd sell my omega for the right price for one of those accuras.

One thing i'd like is if cva would put the laminated stocks on the accura. That would look great with one.

RE: Triumph vs Omega vs Kodiak Pro
 

I have about 10 ML’s, Omega, Savage, Traditons, Cva’s. All will shoot under 2” MOA with the right load and bullet. The Optima pro, I got on clearance for $225 with the Bergara Barrel and thunbhole shoots the most accurate and with the most bullet combos(under1"MOA). But I’ll probable give it to my son as the Omega and Savage are nicer but the Optima is the best for the money.