Length of 209 primers
If someone has some Win209 primers and would mind measuring their LENGTH and posting it? Cheddite too if anyone has any. For reference, I got .298" on a Win209.
05-01-2008, 04:03 PM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 262
RE: Length of 209 primers
U.C.....I just measured 5 winchester 209 primers. None of them measured the same. This is what i got .301....299...302 300...and 297....I am really suprised there is that much difference.
05-01-2008, 07:39 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Length of 209 primers
Thanks Gimpy! That is interesting but the shortest measurement you got from both sets was .297 and that so far makes Winchesters the longest. Someone (FG) on another forum got .296 for standard CCI 209s.
Now, if others would measure and post for Cheddite and Federal - I would be happy.
I'm looking for the LONGEST 209s available to use in the KP1.
Now, if others would measure and post for Cheddite and Federal - I would be happy.
I'm looking for the LONGEST 209s available to use in the KP1.
05-01-2008, 07:49 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
05-01-2008, 08:08 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Length of 209 primers
Well that sure puts them out of the running. Thanks Mike.
I think these old Remingtons I have here are right at .291 so that makes the French Chedditesshortest so far.
Someone have- FEDERALS??
I think these old Remingtons I have here are right at .291 so that makes the French Chedditesshortest so far.
Someone have- FEDERALS??
05-01-2008, 09:47 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
RE: Length of 209 primers
Cheddite - .284 to .288
Remington .... .291 to .292
Winchester..... .297-.302
Federal.. .298
those are the numbers I've collected so far. It would seem that Winchesters of any variety are the longest.
Take notes, this could be important.
OK, the reason I'm asking is the lock up of certain guns will result in more or less gap between the action/bolt face and the primer depending upon the brand of primer chosen. My KP1 is such a rifle and it seems to me the breech plug needed a bit more length to achieve a good fit of primer to action. Because the plug is magnetic, the primer is fully drawn into the hole so a gap remains. This would result in ignition causing the 209 to be moved rearward enough to prevent any sealing action inside the pocket of the plug. Even the Win209s are not long enough to make contact.
My guess is this variance in primer dimensions (both length and width, but primarily
length) is the root cause of a lot of needless blowback in many guns. The manufacturers cannot design the plug clearance properly as a result. So they allow too much rather than too little in many cases. Several Pro Hunters I've read about are very sensitive to the primer length issue - and I think that is probably a good thing once the owner realizes it. If the action won't close using Winchester primers, try another brand (ideally in order of decreasing length) until you find one that fits just right. In the case of my KP1, there isn't a primer on the market long enough. 
I'm wondering what would happen if I put one layer of clear tape over the primer...
Remington .... .291 to .292
Winchester..... .297-.302
Federal.. .298
those are the numbers I've collected so far. It would seem that Winchesters of any variety are the longest.
Take notes, this could be important.
OK, the reason I'm asking is the lock up of certain guns will result in more or less gap between the action/bolt face and the primer depending upon the brand of primer chosen. My KP1 is such a rifle and it seems to me the breech plug needed a bit more length to achieve a good fit of primer to action. Because the plug is magnetic, the primer is fully drawn into the hole so a gap remains. This would result in ignition causing the 209 to be moved rearward enough to prevent any sealing action inside the pocket of the plug. Even the Win209s are not long enough to make contact.
My guess is this variance in primer dimensions (both length and width, but primarily
length) is the root cause of a lot of needless blowback in many guns. The manufacturers cannot design the plug clearance properly as a result. So they allow too much rather than too little in many cases. Several Pro Hunters I've read about are very sensitive to the primer length issue - and I think that is probably a good thing once the owner realizes it. If the action won't close using Winchester primers, try another brand (ideally in order of decreasing length) until you find one that fits just right. In the case of my KP1, there isn't a primer on the market long enough. I'm wondering what would happen if I put one layer of clear tape over the primer...
05-01-2008, 10:03 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Length of 209 primers
UC
But,! - I have found that the lock-up is more effected by the diameter of the 209 than the length. There is a taper to the battery cup. Some primers fit better because they are able to go deeper into the pocket than others that have to large of a diameter to drop in as far as others - thus they stick out to far.
Does this make any sense to you....
When loading shot shells you really notice the different diameters of the various shot shell primers....
But,! - I have found that the lock-up is more effected by the diameter of the 209 than the length. There is a taper to the battery cup. Some primers fit better because they are able to go deeper into the pocket than others that have to large of a diameter to drop in as far as others - thus they stick out to far.
Does this make any sense to you....
When loading shot shells you really notice the different diameters of the various shot shell primers....
05-01-2008, 10:15 PM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Length of 209 primers
Semisane
That would probably increase the amount of blow back and gas cutting - reaching back into the threads of the BP... plus I have yet to figure out why anyone would consistently shoot a loose breech plug... There is a possibility of putting a lot of undue pressure on the threads of the BP and/or barrel threads... drive them forward a bit with the hammer then drive them back with explosion of the the charge... this will wear on the gun over a period of time...
That would probably increase the amount of blow back and gas cutting - reaching back into the threads of the BP... plus I have yet to figure out why anyone would consistently shoot a loose breech plug... There is a possibility of putting a lot of undue pressure on the threads of the BP and/or barrel threads... drive them forward a bit with the hammer then drive them back with explosion of the the charge... this will wear on the gun over a period of time...