This come from rdpettit's web information... Toby did some comparison of the two products... I guess I am still not seeing the cost benefit - but remember I can buy T7 for an average price of $16/$17... for 16 oz...

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All interesting numbers posted there.. I always wonder how they know what numberit takes to bring down these animals?

I have been watching this new powder and anything posted on it. I have to agree with Sabotloader.. what is the advantage other then you might not have to clean the rifle that night, or even the whole hunting season. The problem with that is I would never be able to sleep knowing my rifle was dirty.

I have also saw some of the velocities Sabotloader gets on his chronograph using some very good quality (and affordable I might add) bullets. I am impressed with their velocity and the accuracy of them. As well as the in the field experience Sabotloader and others have demonstrated with the old style powders..

Being someone who watches money because of the amount I shoot. I will stick with what works and what is cost effective. Until someone can prove that I can get more shots per pound and better accuracy and ease of use with a new powder, I will stick with what works for me.

I agree that I don't see a big advantage to switch there.....

OK -someone check my math...

One bottle of T7 contains 454 Grams of powder...which equals approx. 7006 grains... 100 grains volume of T7 ='s approx. 77.7 grains (weight)-> which equals about 90 shots per bottle.... (16 oz bottle)

Busta did the math on BH-209 with 100 grain volume loadsand came up with about 65 shots per bottle (10 oz bottle) - In short what that means to me is one good trip to the range and I have probably used up a bottle of BH-209.

So you all can do the cost-per-shot computations... Plus as Dave has already mentioned - I am perfectly hapy shooting fairly inexpensive bullets. I feel I need to be able to keep my cost per shot down as much possible - but that is really getting tuff theses days...

Somewhere in these numbersI compute it is a lot less expensive to shoot T7 - it will not quite equal the velocity of the BH-209, but for me and hunting it is close enough...

The biggest reason to make the jump that everyone talks about...
1. Non corrosive 2. No "Crud Ring" 3. No swabbing 4. No frozen breech plugs.

I know I am one of the lucky ones when it comes to T7...

The only one on the list that might be a problem is corrosion and that is so easily taken care of with a regular windex patch... I am not anal at all about cleaning my ML's.... I shoot them before the season to check 0 - then patch the barrel with windex and the gun normally remains that way until the end of the season...

How much time does it take to run a patch - you have to let the barrel cool anyway -if you are shooting sabots at the range... and while huntng if you need that quick second, third, fourth shot - I can normally do that also... For some reason I really do not build up the big "crud ring" in any of my guns - inlines or sidehammers. The very first shot from the barrel usually produces a slight ring but the patch take care of the very quickly... successive shots produce less ring.

I have not had a frozen breech plug in years... (knocking on wood) and I can shoot up to 50 shots a trip to the rock pit (it is a 60 mile round trip - so I try to make it worth while)- I would say I would easily average 40.

The other thing I am looking at is BH-209 will hold the price up as long as they can and if the powder is a success they will gain a market share - which might lower the price of T7... + there are some many rules to shooting BH-209 -> right now the only gun I have that meets their stated qualification is the Omega... the Knight does not match but it is know that you can shoot the 209 from the Knight with a BP change.

So all in all, even thought I do have a bottle possibly on order from a local dealer - dealing directly with Western Powder - I will not be making the switch anytime soon.

I guess I'm not seeing the advantages of Blackhorn either. Of the listed advantages:

1. Non-corrosive - I clean my gun after every shooting session, and I doubt I would stop cleaning it because I'm using a different powder. Also, 777 is not very corrosive - once I had to leave the barrel dirty for 3 days straight - when I gave it a good cleaning, the bore was shiny like new.

2. No crud ring - I must be one of the lucky ones, because I've never had much trouble with the crud ring. Of course, I usually swab between shots.

3. No swabbing - I swab anyways - I get better accuracy when shooting sabots that way, and that's pretty much all I'm shooting right now.

4. No frozen breech plugs - This shouldn't be an issue if you dab a little anti-seizecompounds on the threads - spark plug grease costs pennies at Autozone.

So I agree, I'm not seeing the advantages here, at least for me.

"I will stick with what works and what is cost effective."


Me too. Ain't into a lot of experimentation with very costly stuff. My loads kill hogs and deer at moderate rangesand that is what matters to me.

Using Sabotloaders numbers of 90 shots per pound of 777 and 65 shots per 10 oz of BH209 that works out to about 104 shots per pound of BH209. At $30 for 10 oz of BH209 that works out to about $48 per pound or about 46 cents per shot. 777 at $20 per pound (what I can get it for) works out to about 22 cents per shot.

If someone only used it to sight in and hunt with, it would make more sense than someone who shoots a lot. Also if you compare it to shooting pellets it is a much closer match. A box of 100 pellets cost around $27 for 50 shots, works out to about 54 cents per shot.

I am suppose to have a can of BH209 on the way but don't know when it will arrive. I plan on giving it a try in the 3 or 4 guns I have that can shoot it. I will post results when I get to it.

frankly the whole energy thing is crap.... if you can kill elephant with a bow and arrow... what matters is a hole all the way through the critter...


Other than checking zero before the season I don't shoot much and so will keep using T7. Though the crud ring thing is worse with the new Encore I just got. Swabbing the barrel after the second shot is a requirement though with the Encore more so than with my Revolution II.

i don't shoot enough to worry about price. i want it for the consistancy and the lack of corrision. if you don't have to worry about fouling i think it's worth the price.