Disappointing Day With The Renegade
03-30-2008 | 05:33 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
Likes: 1
From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Well guys, that $137 Renegade may not have been such a great deal after all. Had my first range session with it this morning and came away disappointed.Here's a full report of the range session.
I didn't know how the sights were set, so I started with a target at 25 yards, and 85 grains Pyrodex RS under a patched ball. Things were looking good. Here's the target.
Really happy with that. So, I put a target out at 50 yards and shot three shots of the same load. DAMN, about a seven-inch group! I was so disgusted I balled that target up and threw it away. How can a decent group at 25 yards turn into trash at 50? Got to thinking maybe it was my fault. So I put up another target and took four more shots, but reduced the charge to 80 grains Pyrodex. Here's that target. (Makes you sick.)
Don't know where shot #4 hit, but it had to be over the top of the target because I had plenty of backing board to the left, right, and bottom of the target, and could have seen holes there.
Well, maybe conicals will do better. Put up another 50-yard target and loaded up with 80 grains Pyrodex RS and 410 grain Great Plains. Took five shots. Here's the target.
DANG!!! That same load out of my New Englander would have all of the holes touching at 50 yards. Well, let's try some 320 grain Lee REALs. Five shots later I had this target.
Oh poop! No answers there. Let's give the 250 grain REALs a try. Here's the 5-shot target.
Got nothing to lose now, so I may as well try some .458 405 grain Lee cast (wheel weight) bullets in MMP orange sabots. Only shot three of those - could hardly get them down the bore. Here's the target.
Getting late. Gotta` head home. One last try.250 grain Gold Dots in Harvester crush rib sabots. Got excited after shot #2, but 3, 4 & 5 cooled me off. Here's the target.
GENERAL INFO:
- All shooting was with CCI standard #11 caps - no misfires or hangfires.
- I swabbed with both sides of one patch moistened with Butch'sBore Shine between all shots.
- All shooting was from a bench with good rests.
- The double set trigger on this rifle is fantastic. All of the shots felt good with what felt likea good sight picture.
- The Renegade soaks up recoil - even the 410 GP and 405 cast bullets in a TIGHT sabot were not uncomfortable shooting with 80 grains.
- I knew the bore was "a little" pitted when I bought the gun, but the pitting turned out to be heavier than I had judged by looking at it with a bore light. The bore is prettyrough for the first four or five inches at the muzzle. Much better after that.
- I'm going to work the bore over with oiled steel wool and see if that improves things. If not, I may try cutting six inches off and recrowning it - nothing to lose, huh? Failing all else, a .54 or .58 GM barrel may be in my future.
I didn't know how the sights were set, so I started with a target at 25 yards, and 85 grains Pyrodex RS under a patched ball. Things were looking good. Here's the target.
Really happy with that. So, I put a target out at 50 yards and shot three shots of the same load. DAMN, about a seven-inch group! I was so disgusted I balled that target up and threw it away. How can a decent group at 25 yards turn into trash at 50? Got to thinking maybe it was my fault. So I put up another target and took four more shots, but reduced the charge to 80 grains Pyrodex. Here's that target. (Makes you sick.)
Don't know where shot #4 hit, but it had to be over the top of the target because I had plenty of backing board to the left, right, and bottom of the target, and could have seen holes there.
Well, maybe conicals will do better. Put up another 50-yard target and loaded up with 80 grains Pyrodex RS and 410 grain Great Plains. Took five shots. Here's the target.
DANG!!! That same load out of my New Englander would have all of the holes touching at 50 yards. Well, let's try some 320 grain Lee REALs. Five shots later I had this target.
Oh poop! No answers there. Let's give the 250 grain REALs a try. Here's the 5-shot target.
Got nothing to lose now, so I may as well try some .458 405 grain Lee cast (wheel weight) bullets in MMP orange sabots. Only shot three of those - could hardly get them down the bore. Here's the target.
Getting late. Gotta` head home. One last try.250 grain Gold Dots in Harvester crush rib sabots. Got excited after shot #2, but 3, 4 & 5 cooled me off. Here's the target.
GENERAL INFO:
- All shooting was with CCI standard #11 caps - no misfires or hangfires.
- I swabbed with both sides of one patch moistened with Butch'sBore Shine between all shots.
- All shooting was from a bench with good rests.
- The double set trigger on this rifle is fantastic. All of the shots felt good with what felt likea good sight picture.
- The Renegade soaks up recoil - even the 410 GP and 405 cast bullets in a TIGHT sabot were not uncomfortable shooting with 80 grains.
- I knew the bore was "a little" pitted when I bought the gun, but the pitting turned out to be heavier than I had judged by looking at it with a bore light. The bore is prettyrough for the first four or five inches at the muzzle. Much better after that.
- I'm going to work the bore over with oiled steel wool and see if that improves things. If not, I may try cutting six inches off and recrowning it - nothing to lose, huh? Failing all else, a .54 or .58 GM barrel may be in my future.
03-30-2008 | 05:42 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
ORIGINAL: Semisane
Well guys, that $137 Renegade may not have been such a great deal after all. Had my first range session with it this morning and came away disappointed.Here's a full report of the range session.
I didn't know how the sights were set, so I started with a target at 25 yards, and 85 grains Pyrodex RS under a patched ball. Things were looking good. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R001.jpg
Yeah, I was happy with that. So, I put a target out at 50 yards and shot three shots of the same load. DAMN, about a seven-inch group! I was so disgusted I balled that target up and threw it away. How can a decent group at 25 yards turn into trash at 50? Got to thinking maybe it was my fault. So I put up another target and took four more shots, but reduced the charge to 80 grains Pyrodex. Here's that target. (Makes you sick.)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R002.jpg
Don't know where shot #4 hit, but it had to be over the top of the target because I had plenty of backing board to the left, right, and bottom of the target, and could have seen holes there.
Well, maybe conicals will do better. Put up another 50-yard target and loaded up with 80 grains Pyrodex RS and 410 grain Great Plains. Took five shots. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R003.jpg
DANG!!! That same load out of my New Englander would have all of the holes touching at 50 yards. Well, let's try some 320 grain Lee REALs. Five shots later I had this target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R004.jpg
Oh poop! No answers there. Let's give the 250 grain REALs a try. Here's the 5-shot target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R005.jpg
Got nothing to lose now, so I may as well try some .458 405 grain Lee cast (wheel weight) bullets in MMP orange sabots. Only shot three of those - could hardly get them down the bore. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R006.jpg
Getting late. Gotta` head home. One last try.250 grain Gold Dots in Harvester crush rib sabots. Got excited after shot #2, but 3, 4 & 5 cooled me off. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R007.jpg
GENERAL INFO:
- All shooting was with CCI standard #11 caps - no misfires or hangfires.
- I swabbed with both sides of one patch moistened with Butch'sBore Shine between all shots.
- All shooting was from a bench with good rests.
- The double set trigger on this rifle is fantastic. All of the shots felt good with what felt likea good sight picture.
- The Renegade soaks up recoil - even the 410 GP and 405 cast bullets in a TIGHT sabot were not uncomfortable shooting with 80 grains.
- I knew the bore was "a little" pitted when I bought the gun, but the pitting turned out to be heavier than I had judged by looking at it with a bore light. The bore is prettyrough for the first four or five inches at the muzzle. Much better after that.
- I'm going to work the bore over with oiled steel wool and see if that improves things. If not, I may try cutting six inches off and recrowning it - nothing to lose, huh? Failing all else, a .54 or .58 GM barrel may be in my future.
DANG! Don't know why the pictures didn' transfer.
Well guys, that $137 Renegade may not have been such a great deal after all. Had my first range session with it this morning and came away disappointed.Here's a full report of the range session.
I didn't know how the sights were set, so I started with a target at 25 yards, and 85 grains Pyrodex RS under a patched ball. Things were looking good. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R001.jpg
Yeah, I was happy with that. So, I put a target out at 50 yards and shot three shots of the same load. DAMN, about a seven-inch group! I was so disgusted I balled that target up and threw it away. How can a decent group at 25 yards turn into trash at 50? Got to thinking maybe it was my fault. So I put up another target and took four more shots, but reduced the charge to 80 grains Pyrodex. Here's that target. (Makes you sick.)
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R002.jpg
Don't know where shot #4 hit, but it had to be over the top of the target because I had plenty of backing board to the left, right, and bottom of the target, and could have seen holes there.
Well, maybe conicals will do better. Put up another 50-yard target and loaded up with 80 grains Pyrodex RS and 410 grain Great Plains. Took five shots. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R003.jpg
DANG!!! That same load out of my New Englander would have all of the holes touching at 50 yards. Well, let's try some 320 grain Lee REALs. Five shots later I had this target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R004.jpg
Oh poop! No answers there. Let's give the 250 grain REALs a try. Here's the 5-shot target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R005.jpg
Got nothing to lose now, so I may as well try some .458 405 grain Lee cast (wheel weight) bullets in MMP orange sabots. Only shot three of those - could hardly get them down the bore. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R006.jpg
Getting late. Gotta` head home. One last try.250 grain Gold Dots in Harvester crush rib sabots. Got excited after shot #2, but 3, 4 & 5 cooled me off. Here's the target.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/NavZepol/Renegade%20Targets/R007.jpg
GENERAL INFO:
- All shooting was with CCI standard #11 caps - no misfires or hangfires.
- I swabbed with both sides of one patch moistened with Butch'sBore Shine between all shots.
- All shooting was from a bench with good rests.
- The double set trigger on this rifle is fantastic. All of the shots felt good with what felt likea good sight picture.
- The Renegade soaks up recoil - even the 410 GP and 405 cast bullets in a TIGHT sabot were not uncomfortable shooting with 80 grains.
- I knew the bore was "a little" pitted when I bought the gun, but the pitting turned out to be heavier than I had judged by looking at it with a bore light. The bore is prettyrough for the first four or five inches at the muzzle. Much better after that.
- I'm going to work the bore over with oiled steel wool and see if that improves things. If not, I may try cutting six inches off and recrowning it - nothing to lose, huh? Failing all else, a .54 or .58 GM barrel may be in my future.
DANG! Don't know why the pictures didn' transfer.
Chap
03-30-2008 | 05:47 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
Likes: 1
From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Thanks Chap. You're probably right. Anyway, I got the picture thing fixed thanks to Cayugad - I had forgotten a step he told me about. At least something went right today.
03-30-2008 | 06:01 PM
#6
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Well I would not let one range session upset me. First thing I would do is really clean that barrel. Even a little bore paste or something to insure that the barrel is spotless. Also when shooting the roundball, don't swab between shots next time and see what happens. Next try changing lubes on the patch and see if that makes a difference. Perhaps a wad between the powder and the roundball. Also try a different powder that you have laying around.
Concials are hit and miss sometimes. Try changing the powder charges down to 60 & 70 grains. Also if you have some 3f powder around, put that under the conicals instead of the Pyrodex. It is so hard to say to anyone.. this is what is doing this to you. The ruff bore would be suspect, but I have seen ruff bores shoot very well. And then I have seen them terrible.
Otherwise, I really have no idea what is going on. You might simply get a different barrel and solve all your problems. Remember the Renegades are 1 inch on the flats.
Concials are hit and miss sometimes. Try changing the powder charges down to 60 & 70 grains. Also if you have some 3f powder around, put that under the conicals instead of the Pyrodex. It is so hard to say to anyone.. this is what is doing this to you. The ruff bore would be suspect, but I have seen ruff bores shoot very well. And then I have seen them terrible.
Otherwise, I really have no idea what is going on. You might simply get a different barrel and solve all your problems. Remember the Renegades are 1 inch on the flats.
03-30-2008 | 06:05 PM
#7
Fork Horn
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Well if the bbl is shot ya have a good start on a good rifle for the price. A GM bbl on that will still give ya good deal and a good rifle. I had to give up on a bbl on my renegade this winter too borrowed it out a couple years ago and got it back in bad shape. I sent it to T/C and they told me not to shoot it. I put a GM 1-28 bbl on it from track of the wolf for 160 bucks and problem fixed and I learned a good lesson about borrowing my stuff out. Good luck with what ever ya decide to do.
Kerry
Kerry
03-30-2008 | 06:40 PM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Semi
I think I have the twin to that barrel here at the house - other than it is 54 cal. If you want to ship you this non-shooter that I have just say the word - then you could have two of em...
What did your patches look like from the PRB's - you saw mine they were blown all to heck.
Mine would not shoot conicals worth a darn either - but it did shoot sabots just fine...
Hopefully I will get out to shoot Tuesday - want to shoot the new(er) 54 Rene' that I have + one of the inlines...
I think I have the twin to that barrel here at the house - other than it is 54 cal. If you want to ship you this non-shooter that I have just say the word - then you could have two of em...
What did your patches look like from the PRB's - you saw mine they were blown all to heck.
Mine would not shoot conicals worth a darn either - but it did shoot sabots just fine...
Hopefully I will get out to shoot Tuesday - want to shoot the new(er) 54 Rene' that I have + one of the inlines...
03-30-2008 | 06:51 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
Likes: 1
From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Well, you're right Cayugad, there are a lot of things to try before giving up. But I suspect that if a good polishing of the barrel doesn't show significant improvement it will be a lost cause. You're right about not swabbing between round balls, and I didn't for the first RB group at 25 yards and the first "thrown away target" RB group at 50 yards.
03-30-2008 | 06:59 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,918
Likes: 1
From: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
RE: Disappointing Day With The Renegade
Hey Sabotloader, as far as the patches went, they were so torn upyou could hardly tell what they were.
I sure appreciate the offer, but think I'll pass on that bad .54 barrel. Got enough trouble with what I already have. Just for grins, why don't you chop it down to 22" and see what happens?
I sure appreciate the offer, but think I'll pass on that bad .54 barrel. Got enough trouble with what I already have. Just for grins, why don't you chop it down to 22" and see what happens?