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ml preferance

Old 02-19-2008, 08:44 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 300
Default ml preferance

did everone notice the post at the deer hunting forum about the ml, almost all inlines. not knocking them cause i like them alot myself but this post sorta relates to the post on here about the p. company and the t.b. relation, and the states that only allow this and that type muzzle loaders, bullets,scopes ect. when i first started with ml's there wasn't a big choice of what you had to choose from, and when the inlines came along i grabbed one then we got to put scopes on them now you can even use 45-70's with modern loads. but still the state says no to smokeless in a ml. and now we have a new sidehammer for my son when i could have gotten him anything under the sun for some reason i chose the kentucky long rifle. i now wonder if this was just me trying to relive something from the past or did something inside me think this gun would really help teach my son to be a better hunter.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:12 AM
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Default RE: ml preferance

Actually I don't think it is the individual states that are dictating no smokeless inMLs. Smokeless powder builds up pressure much faster than BP or its substitutes. As I understand it, ML barrels are notmade to withstand that rapid a pressure curve.

IMHO if even the states did permit smokeless in an ML, why would you do it? At that point you pretty much have a modern center fire gun. And that goes against my reasons for getting in to MLs in the first place.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: ml preferance

i was talking about the use of smokeless powder in the savage ml.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:53 AM
Dominant Buck
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Location: Wisconsin
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Default RE: ml preferance

I honestly think you did your son a favor by starting him off with a traditional rifle. As for reliving your past, if that's the case, whats wrong with that? Wouldn't you want your son to experience some of the fond memories you have with your early black powder rifles? Believe me the first roundball he sends through a deer and makes a clean harvest is one he will remember and brag about for many years, to anyone that will listen.

Again, just my opinion. He will come to understand that the Kentucky does not look like a modern rifle, and it will probably limit his shooting distances, especially if you hunt with roundball and no optics. What he will come to understand is even something as backward (as some people think) as a Kentucky long rifle, is lethal in the right hands. He will also learn that just because a target is on the outside edge of what might be considered in range, it pays to wait for some better shot. He is going to learn to bepatient.

I was sitting one season with my nephew, hunting over a stand bait. A nice deer came in, at about 70 yards. He was all excited and ready to shoot. But I knew that deer was not spooked, and was going to move closer. So I simply advised him to watch it and be ready. Needless to say he thought his uncle was touched in the head (and we will not argue that point). Well he ended up taking the shot at about 25 yards, knocking it flat. What did he learn... even though you could have made the shot, that does not always mean you have to take the shot. That is something that a traditional muzzle loader taught me. I used to hunt with a 7mm mag and if I saw it, I could shoot it. The trouble is hunting season became more of a morning meat gathering ritual and not a hunt. I switched over to a .54 caliber shooting roundball and it was a whole new world of hunting out there.

The Kentucky rifle will be a real experience for you and him. I have a friend that bought a Kentucky long rifle many years ago in .45 caliber. He's hunted deer for over 30 years with that simple rifle and taken deer almost every year. Last time I talked to him he still has not purchased any inline. As he said, there is no need for one where I hunt.

Your son is going to have a blast hunting with it and you....
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Texas (Williamson Co.)
Posts: 128
Default I've always liked sidelocks...

But then, I prefer a good recurve and cedar arrows over compounds too.

Some people like the efficiency of the more modern stuff, others prefer the satisfaction that results from success with more primitive weapons.

For my part, I think that the movie "Jeremiah Johnson" affected my DNA way back as a kid!

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Old 02-19-2008, 11:43 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,604
Default RE: ml preferance

I think it's just where we are in this country. Everyone has to have the newest and greatest thing. It doesn't really surprise me that most were inlines. I only have maybe one or two friends that still use sidelocks.-and you should hear the abuse I get for shootin' a roundball...

I think it's the state's job to decide. If you only have inlines you're probably not going to want a flintlock only season. If you use sidelocks most would love a flintlock season (or some version of it) I'll admit, when VA first went to allowing scopes back in the mid-late 90's I was excited. However, now I wish they'd do away with them. Just my $0.02 and by no means do I speak for everyone. The way I solve it is, I created my own standards. ML season I hunt w/sidlocks. During rifle season I use an inline. I like huntin' with both so that's how I solve the problem myself.

I think bottom line will be $ like with everything else unfortunately...
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:54 PM
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Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,542
Default RE: ml preferance

I'm like a lot of people in here (I think). I don't care about the taking of game but more about the experience. We all have our likes and dislikes. I went the inline route for a grand total of 1 year. The rifle I had worked fine and shot well and I did harvest a nice deer with it. But it just wasn't for me. I have a bucket full of traditional sidelocks, all T/Cs both percussion and flintlock. Why, because I like the way they feel and the way they shoot. I also like HAVING to get within 100 yds, preferably within 50 yds before taking a shot. If I spook a deer - so be it. I'll just try harder next time and learn from my mistake(s).
If a person prefers inlines and its legal to hunt with one - more power to him.
The same goes with archery. I have a couple of compounds and recurves. I just grab whatever suits my fancy that particular day.
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:56 PM
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,408
Default RE: ml preferance

My kids will start with a sidelock and open sights. I'm still a firm believer in teaching the basics and fundamentals of marksmanship before you give them a scope and the deceiving mangification allows them to try long shots they are not ready for. Open sights encourage them to learn fundamental hunting skills like stalking, stand postion, etc.

I do not think it hypocritical at all that I usually (not always) hunt with a scope now. When I was a kid I hunted virtually every day of the season and it was no big deal not to get anything, I was learning. I'm older now, learned those lessons, and get 1-2 days of gun season and 3-4 days of bow to fill the freezers of 3 families. I look forward to the rare occasions I get to stillhunt with a carbine-sized MLand open sights as a treat.

As for the whole traditional vs inline debate, roundballs and scopes are the only things that make a real difference. Location of ignition is meaningless unless you're restricting to flintlock. Give me a Hawken and a scope and a conical, and 300 yds is still a realistic distance in my hands. One of my planned future projects is actually to make a rifle from scratch that has a nice long barrel, open vernier-style sights, and shoots conicals accurately for a long, long ways. Fully traditional yet a true long-range weapon (primarily for paper punching though).

Most of these people are really seeking to limit the number of people in the woods, not technology. Where I grew up, before inlines came out, just as many people seemed to be out during ML season then as now, they just carried Kmart Hawken-style guns instead of Kmart inlines.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:48 PM
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Location: Hayes, Va.
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Default RE: ml preferance

I have a fineinline that I onlyshoot to check zero at the begining ofdeer season. I give it to my friendand I shoot a Cabela's Hawkins Carbinepercussion. I have a Lyman GPR Flint lock in the mail and should receive tomorow. Thisis a firstfor meand I am really waiting to shot this piece. I hope I don'thave the flinch reaction forlong. I have only shot one of these guns once and flinched.
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:59 PM
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 141
Default RE: ml preferance

I have lived in Pennsylvania all my life and we have had a flintlock only whitetail season after Christmas as long as I can remember. Naturally I started my muzzleloading addiction on flinters; we started bow hunting with recurves because that was all there was when I was a kid. I have made a concession of sorts by recently going to a fast twist flinter shooting sabots and conicals. I still hunt and shoot my roundball rifles but I must admit I prefer the extra power for deer.

I have no reason to use crossbows, compounds and inlines; they feel strange in my hands. A recurve feels like it's a part of me and the same goes for flinters. I am happy to see your son has an interest in a traditional rifle. He will enjoy the sport for life.
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