Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

I have several questions for you guys here. I am a first yearmuzzleloader hunter, hooked for life.
I hunted this year with a.430 240gr xtp over 90gr T7 ffg, green crush rib sabot, T/C Omega.BC of .205.Holes literallytouching at 50 yards. 2 dead deer.
The second load that I played with but did not hunt with was a .452 300gr xtp over 90gr T7 ffg, mmp 3 petal e-z, BC of .180. Same results on paper.
Went to the range today with a box of Speer Gold Dot, .452 300gr over 90gr T7 ffg. BC of .233. I did not play with the powder grain weight, (volume.) Took along some 3 petal e-z, hph24 and black crush rib sabots. As you can see, I would like to develop a load for this bullet. The HPH24 shot the most accurate, but not as accurate as the 300gr xtp. We are talking maybe an inch difference at 50 yards. The Got Dot was definately hunting accurate.
Two questions.
Why would a bullet with a lower BC shoot a littlemore consistently than one with a higher BC?
Have any of you guys used a bullet to hunt withthat was a little less accurate, (talking an inch), but is arguably a better bullet?
I realize playing with the powder chargecould make a difference. Just wanted to keep everything as consistent as possible.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

I'll take the most accurate as long as it's reasonable with performance. This year I used the 300 gr XTP because it was easily the winner on accuracy over my old favorite the 300 gr Barnes Expander MZ.
One shot. One bullet right where I wanted to put it, and one deer dead in it's tracks! I've heard some stories of the XTP fragmenting, and I'm not disputing them, but if you put it through skin, muscle, and small bones, then into the heart/lung area it will do the job! The ability to put it where you want it is more important to me!
A heart/lung shot with about any .50 bullet will put meat in the freezer, but a miss or worse (a non-vital area hit) too often ends in frustration.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Skopia

I have found that you need to drive the Gold Dots a little harder than the XTP's - I shoot 110 grains of T7-2f and will get the 1" to 1.25" groups with them @ 100...

BC really does not detirmine accuracy just bullet flight characteristics and at ML velocities and distances - BC is no where near as important as in a CF gun.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

You are just getting started...Look at this as handloading, today you found out that the Gold Dot had "potential"...Further range sessions, changing powder charges, even brands and sabots will show you how much accuracy you can squeeze out of it in your gun...They will all do the job...

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Thank you. All the answers make sense to me. I am a very patient hunter when it comes to shot selection. That stems from my grooming as a bow hunter. I do not just "let the lead fly." Placing a bullet where it is supposed to be placed is very important to me. I am verypleased with my XTP's.That being said, I do realize in the hunting worldthere can be situationsthatare not ideal.My next range session is going to consist of experimentation with powder charges. Hey, we all like to play I guess.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

The difference of the higher bc will not even show up till you get out to 175-200 yds. In my savage a 300xtp(bc .180)will shoot at 3/4" at 100 yds with decent conditions, same as the more expensive bullets(bc .290)I use for 300 yd shooting. So unless you really want to push it, the bc is a non factor for 95% of ML hunters.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

So far as my muzzleloaders are concerned, I don't really care at all about BC - in fact I think it is mostly irrelevant.But trying to turn a muzzleloader into a .243 has never been a goal for me.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

UC

Absolutely totally agree - but do not let that information out what would Hornady and all these other companies do if they could not sell you those sleek line - pointy - plastic tipped bullets....

We are such suckers for advertising....

Oh! buy the way I was there at one time but i did find my way back....

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Different bering surface perhaps. I don't like blaming group size on BC...a different rifle might have had opposite results.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Skopia

Just call Dan at Bull shop and order you some of the 443gr U C Shorts get some over the powder wads 85gr of 777 and you won't have to worry about any thing from know on , super accurate and not much out there to stop them.

Ron

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Indiana SmokePole

Personally when I am forced to use a conical it would be one of Dan's 460MT Nex vs the UC short. One of the reason UC developed the UC short was to be able to use it in the slower twist rate barrels, but for me the 460 works well in a 1/24 White Barrel, 1/28 GM barrel, and equally well in a 1/48 TC barrel.

Any time I can I will still use a .451/.458 Nosler Partition all day vs a conical. I still prefer copper, trajectory, and time in flight being to my advantage. Weighing all those factors - I will shoot a sabot..

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Sabotloader

I have been shooting Both the 460gr NEX & the U C Shorts in both my KRB7 & Disc Extreme Wich both have a 1/28" twist rate 1 is 27" barrle & 1 is 26" barrle and Both guns shoot a 1" shot group with the U C shorts and a 1.25 to 1.5 " shot group with the NEX so I can Shoot ether one but I will go with the Shorts, and all most all my hunting is 150yds and under so if I am getting this type of Accuracy out of my Conicals Why would I want to pay more for a Jacketed Bullet and even more $$$ on sabots ? Plus I save $$$ on powder because I don't have to shoot 100 - 130gr to get my load to shoot well .
But SL if that is what works for you That is great , I am just trying to give these guys other options that work and work well .
Ron

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Indiana SmokePole

Good points... I shoot 90 grains of T7-3f and shooting about the same size groups. Have you ever shot shot any of Dan's 400 grain LGP's - they are another excellent conical. I tried them but could not get the velocity boost I was looking for so went back to the 460's...

The only reason I prefer the copper clad bullet is for the fact that I can shoot a lighter bullet with better trajectory, have less time in flight, less effected by exteranl forces,and have the same energy on the other end that you would have with the big conicals. And of course my belief that the copper jacket bullet is a strong and more effective killing bullet than the conical. The conical depends on size and weight, where I am more confortable with speed and performance and most of all penetration. The size of a mushroomed 460 is huge and reduces penetration and velocity after the hit, while the lighter, controlled exspansion of the Nosler maintains velocity and penetration for a longer period of time.

It is an age old comparison - but if the conical was that much better of a hunting bullet we would still be using it in mass and therewould be no need of the modern hunting bullet. Now do not take that wrong - the conical will do the job and it is even better now than it was... but it will not match up day in and day out to a Barnes, Nosler, or even a Gold Dot in a ML.

You also might want to stock up on your conicals - price of lead just took another huge jump - everybodies bullets are going up...

mike

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Does Dan at Bull Shop have a web sight?

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Skopia

Yep... right here...

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/prices.html

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

Skopia,"Why would a bullet with a lower BC shoot a littlemore consistently than one with a higher BC?"
The SD and the BC are only indirectly related to accuracy, what you are dealing with is barrel harmonics or "Whip"
the better bc may give you a bit flatter trajectory which may help with long range accuracy but only a littlw.
The barrel vibrates or whips with the violance of discharge the right amount of powder will stablize that so that the bullet exits the barrel at the same point in the movement every time that when you start seeing tight groups of course every thing else has to be consistant also. Lee

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

My favorite.30 caliberbulletfor short to medium range target shooting in .308 and .30-06 is the 150 grain Hornady round nose. In my favorite .308 this bullet makes five shot groups at 100 yards that you can cover with a penny. It is more accurate to 200 yards in than anyone's match bullet, andi have used them all. The reason is very basic: According to Hornady, it is a lot easier to make a perfect round nose bullet. So that Hornady round nose bullet hasa BCa little better than a rock-a very accurate rock.

RE: Ballistic coefficient vs accuracy
 

I wan to feel confident to 200 yards. The wind is more of a problem than bullet drop. Time of flight is most important for wind deflection. Time of flight is based on bullet speed and how well th ebullets keeps it's speed (balistic coeficent). I also have an Omega and will post some target and speed info soon as I get it compiled. I want to shoot the lighted best BC bullet I can but it looks like the 300 shockwave is what my Omega likes.