Your long range ML loads?
 

I have been hearing that the 250grainers seemingly are preferred for the longer range shooting, over 200yds with a .50 cal. Anyone beg to differ, or have a good pet load they are willing to share?

Dan

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

I don't get long range shots around here,but there was a fellow in Alberta that used to post a lot.His wife dropped a deer at 308 yds with a 200gr SST pellets of Pyro

Charlie

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

eatsleephunt

Not sure what you consider 'long range' but I consider 200 yards my 'stop and think about it' range... I will shoot a regular 250/60 grain bullet to 180 yards and really not think much about. 300 grain bullets will hold more velocity and energy out beyond, but if you look at the 200 grain bullets they will match or even be slightly better than the 300's - the only problem as I see it is the external effects in flight on a light 200 grain bullets is greater than the heavier 250/300 grain bullets. Velocity of the lighter bullets will also over-ride some of the external effects...

IMO

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

300 gr bullets are better for long range shooting because of the better ballistic coeffecient of the heavier bullets, for instance a 300g sst(bc of .250)launched at 2000fps hits only ONE INCH LOWER at 300yds than a 250gsst (bc of .210)launched at 2100fps. Yeah, I know thats a little lower with the slower heavier bullet, but the wind drift is what you need to worry about long range ML'ing. You get 4" less wind drift with a heavier bullet in 10mph crosswind. Thats not all, a 250g bullet only has 780 ft/lbs energy left at 300 yds when lauched at 2100 fps(very hot bp load). The 300g bullet retains over 1000 ft/lbs energy at the same range. The differences can be greater than that with a premium bullet such as the barnes original semi spitzer 300g(bc of .290). Past 200 yds with a Ml, knowing the absolute range and wind is critical to good shot placement, better take a good rangefinder.

You also have to put alot of range time to figure your shots, I'm cheating(using a savage w/ ballistic recticle scope), so I can get higher velocities(2150-2300fps with 300g) and it still takes alot of practice to get good at long shots. I'm good to 300, but still trying to get good enough to make a 350 yd shot(everytime). Its alot harder to get that 50 yds than you might think and keep them all in a 5" circle.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

For targets i like to use 80 grains pyrodex p with a 225 grain powerbelt. I shoot a .45 when i go for deer. But this is just for target fun, 200 yards with open sights is nuts and a very small target.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Okay Hoss,

I agree with having the better ballistic coeficient, energy retention, resistance to wind drift, and probably slightly better or say more consistent accuracy also. I also don't mind the extra inch drop. An inch is negligible as far as I'm concerned.

So, lets talk about style of bullets. Is a hollowpoint inherently more accurate than say a ballistic tip? Hollowpoints seem to be the rage with competitive rifle shooters. What is the most accurate bullet design in 300 grains that is a "good" hunting bullet.

Then, if keep my interest in longer range shooting in mind, what powder and charge weights would you recommend? (.50 cal)

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

300g barnes original ss is the best I've found, its a .458 bullet instead of the more common .452 bullets(sst/sw/xtp/most everything) They fit my bore with a black crush rib, but orange mmp's are another alternative. They are expensive, about a buck a piece, but they are absolutley worth it if your trying to push the envelope of what a ML can do. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=635838&t=11082005

ps, they are a little hard to find, but worth it. Some guys have had good luck with the parker ballistic extremes, too.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

As far your powder, all you can pour in there, and it still shoot straight. I never could go over 120g 777 back when I had my knight, or things would open up in a hurry. Rifles are different so you have shoot and see what you can get by with, rifles that actually shoot well with 150g powder are few and far between(as in I've never ever seen one).

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

What does orange mmp stand for, and I assume by black crush rib you mean a sabot shroud? Not sure, see I don't know very much about this.

Dan

Allright, I'm looking in the Cabelas catalog and I'm seeing the mmp ballistic bridge sub base sabot, and what appears to be an orange one called "dead center"sabots. I also see TCshockwaves, barnes MZ's, Hornady sst, etc. So you feel the MMP's and perhaps the Barnes are the best?

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

The orange MMP sabot is for a .458 Bullet.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Okay, let me ask this then. Having purchase the Knight Disc Ext., which of these saboted rounds would you pick. It seems to me that the ballistic tipped bullets might just perform better?

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

mY 1ST cHOISE WOULD BE THE 290GR BARNS SPITFIRE TMZ WITH 110 - 120GR OF 2FG LOOSE 777 & A WIN. 777 PRIMER

SENT YOU A PM .

RON

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

The barnes 290g tmz is another excellent choice. The barnes I was refering to are not available prepackaged with sabots. The primary purpose of these bullets is for use in handloading for the 45/70 single shot rifles, they are not marketed to ML'ers. They are hands down the most accurate bullets I've found, and the velocities they are designed for fall right in where you are trying to get. The sabots are (and always should be IMO) purchased seperatly, so you can try different ones and see which sabot your bullet/rifle likes(and its alot cheaper). BTW very nice choice of rifles, you should have a 250-275yd setup in short order.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Also, the 777 and cleanbore primers are nice and clean, but they can leave up to40 fps(average around 25fps)off your velocity. A hotter 209 primer can give a small, but noticable increase in your velocity. Federal 209a primers are the hottest widely available primer, but they are not nearly as clean as the primers designed for bp subs. The orange mmp's are sabots for .458" bullets in a .50 bore. The black crush rib sabots are designed to be a easy loading sabot with .452" bullets, but work very well in my rifle with .458" bullets

http://www.mmpsabots.com/ for orange mmp sabots( price is delivered)
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR for black crush rib sabots(good price too)

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

I just ran the 300g barnes original ss vs. the 250g sst on computer

300g barnes @ 2000 fps 3" high at 100 yds
200 yds -4" 1525 ft/lbs
300 yds -26" 1150 ft/lbs

250g sst @ 2100 fps 3" high at 100 yds
200 yds -4" 1679 ft/lbs
300 yds -28.5"784 ft/lbs

So, you dont have to give up anything with a heavier bullet!
Rule #1 of shooting keep your finger off the damn trigger
#2 dont trust computer run shooting data
In my experience it has been pretty darn close!

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Go to http://mmpsabots.com/ and take a look at their sabot selection. Some are for .40 caliber bullets in .45 rifles, some .40 in .50 rifles, and so on. The orange colored sabot near the page bottom is for .457 or .458 bullets in .50 cal rifles.

Harvester sabots at http://www.harvesterbullets.com/sabots.htm. MMP and Harvester are the major suppliers but there are a few others.

And I don't really like any of them. :D

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

200SW and 110gr 777, 2100fps. I tested them all, this was the flattest shooting combination in my gun. If you can push the 300gr accurately, go for it.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

kleanbore primers are actually dirty as hell. I would always get slight hangfires when using these, crud build up inside my bolt was horrible. They are a very very dirty primer.
CCI, Federal or the winchester 777 have always worked best for me.

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Orange Sabots are available here: http://www.mmpsabots.com/

Here is the sabot and what bullet diameters they fit:






Note that the orange sabot will fit .457 and .458 diameter bullets. Most ML 50 cal bullets are .452, the Orange sabots are thinner since the .458 bullet is .006" bigger. Chap Gleason

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Correct, the shroud to the bullet in the rifle. Available here:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR

The crushed rib have grooves in the side of the sabot, allowing the surface are of the outside of the sabot to squeeze in better on a tighter bore. They shoot very accurate for me in my Knight Disc (Origonal Disc) and my TC Omega using 300g Nosler Partition HG, this one:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0011545350

Here is what the Crushed rib look like. Chap Gleason

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

I tested a whole bunch of high BC bullets in my Savage, see here:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/this_is_my_savage_10_ml_page.htm

Which bullet you pick depends on which one your gun shoots best at. I would shoot what the gun manufacturer recommends, say the Knight Red Hot or the Hornady XTP at whatever power they say is best and get the gun grouping with the manufacturer recommended load. You then know you have an accurate barrel/gun. Once you get that shooting well then branch out to say a

1) Parker Ballistic Extreme 275g (you MAY have to change the sabot out, since that bullet is exactly .450 and it is loose in my Savage) or better yet

2) Barnes TMZ 290g

3) 300g Bonded SW.

Any of those bullets have good to excellent terminal performance and will reach out there, sighted in 3" high at 100 yards,you will be within3" at 200 yards. If you look at the Ballistic Charts of a Nosler Partition, and sight it in at 3" high at 100 (say with 120g of loose 777), your good to about 180 yards with a 300g Hollow Point bullet. After 200 yards most MLers start dropping off the table. 250 is a really really long shot for a MLer. Most shots for a ML are less than 100 yards. Big bullets going slow have a lot of killing power, ballistics of most MLer arevery similar tothe 45-70 in the CF rifle world, and you can read about what they did to buffalo in the 1800's. Chap Gleason

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

For any thing over 175yds the 50 /40 [50 cal barrel 40 cal bullet] 200gr will do better on wind and flatness of trajectory. I sight them in at 3" high @ a 100 yds and they impact at 4" low at 200yds. Lee

RE: Your long range ML loads?
 

Also keep in mind that an accurate 100 yd load might not be so good at 250 yds, be sure to test all loads at all ranges. I never could get a sst to group under 1 1/4" at 100, but at 250 yds, it's close to the best of them(4"). The xtp would group at 3/4" at 100, but closer to 7" at 250.