bullets
 

looks like most had a good season this year and for some it an't over yet. and from what we been reading some had some trying moments. i always like reading the post reguardless of subject matter or whatever. well the most common thing besides guns seems to be bullet type and i can tell you i'm glad i an't a deer. deer are a easy kill most of the time you just put a chunk of lead through their heart/lung/spine/head/big blood vein ect. the trick is to find a chunck of lead/copper that your gun can put in the same place every time and to do this you must make your firearm do this. once you master the shot its up to the shot itself thats where the bullet comes into play, and i can say for 100% sure that it don't make a hill of beans what bullet you use they all work. a hollow point that explodes inside a deer means a dead deer if in the vitals, a soild bullet that goes through the good stuff means death. there is no #1 bullet there is no #1 load thats the beauty of ml it all works just learn where your gun shoots the bullet and learn to put that bead on the target.

RE: bullets
 

little-d

I only find one problem with your thoughts...

I can not imagine shooting a big game animal with a bullet any bullet that explodes in the animal. I shoot and have shot a lot of deer with HP bullets - they do not and they had better not "blow-up" I use Noslers or Speer Gold Dots (bonded) to insure that there is no "blow-up" and I am positive the Barnes shooters will tell you the same thing. The purpose of the HP is to start expansion sooner over a wider range of velocities.

On the other hand varmint bullets are somewhat designed to blow-up at the velocities they are being shot. Hornady's "V Max" even though it not a hollow point is designed to "blow-up"

RE: bullets
 

I will Agree 100% SL

RE: bullets
 

He was talking 'bout Powerbelts :D

RE: bullets
 

rem 700

yabut, y wood any1 shoot PB's? utter dan ease a loaden

RE: bullets
 

Thats why you use a Powerbelt:D

RE: bullets
 

I heard about someone killing a deer with PB's I just wasn't sure who it was. (Joking) The super stores stock and sell a lot of PB around here. That's about all they carry.My son used them one year while we were in Ohio and at 70 yds the bullet didn't do a good job. We found the deer with the in and out hole about the same size. We now use either the 260 Nosler or the Knight/Barnes poly tipped bullet. They have done really good at both close and distant shots. I guess it all boils down to what you have confidence in.

RE: bullets
 

oldwun

At one time I did do some shooting with Power Belts, i was impressed with their accuracy and when I was first starting the ease of loading. But it really did not take me long to figer out the that they were really noting more than an elongated round ball, maybe a better definition would be ashaped round ball with a gas check. At one time I figured if I were forced to shoot a conical then the PB would be the bullet. And do not get me wrong because I know PRB's have taking game for a very long time, but then again there must be a reason that even to old timers were searching for a better projectile.

Next thing that entered into my equations was the older timers saying "make a bigger hole" - with a pure lead bullet, like a PB even the plated PB's, I think this is a real key when shooting pure lead. When I first read that Doc White shot 620 grain conicals- I shuttered - but when you get right down to it - to make up for some of the deficiencies shooting pure lead you realy do need to increase weight to hold it together. The other way to make up for this is to slow the projectile down, which as FG has instructed will work - but for the life of me I can not figure out why you would want to increase the time in flight... All you are accomplishing there is allowing the external forces more time to effect the flight of the bullet... X-winds are really bad on slow moving projectiles from a ML... heavier projectiles are less effected - but velocity is still the best way to overide these exteranal forces and of course velocity certainly adds to the delievered energy. From there you move to performance in the animal. the heavier concical is going to provide more penetration and substantiually raise the knock down power of the projectile.

This is only my opinion - but PB's fall short in each of these areas and as long as there is a better widget out there that will be what I prefer to use. And I can not argue the success that some have had it is a matter of confidence and for me PB's would be way down there. Heck! I think Noslers are the best but I can change Ted's opinion that Barnes are the best - so it really is each to his own thing. But for me when you are hunting one animal per year and you are limiting yourself to one shot per animal - I am going to shoot the what I think is best for me and it ain't gonna be a power belt.

RE: bullets
 

what about PB Aerotips? kind of a conicle/ sabot blend it seems. Any of youML veterans have any experience with this bullet? good, bad, or indifferent results?

RE: bullets
 

look at the pic above in this post. That was with a 225 grain powerbelt aerotip with 80 grains ffg triple 7.

RE: bullets
 

Thanks FG. I have not devoured all of your PB posts and discussions, but I am aware that many dislike those bullets and that you have worked up a pretty good load/ system using them. However, aren't most of the probs associated with PB's related to hollow points and not aerotips?

RE: bullets
 

No. 99% of the problems are with high powder charges at close ranges. Some think they need magnum loads to shoot deer 50 yards away.

RE: bullets
 

saltflyz

This again is just my opinion, but I beleive that the Areotip further complecates some of the PB problems. The Areotip design is an attempt by Power Belt to meet public demand and perception. The public is always looking for a bullet that will match with their "magnum" rifle - it needs to look fast sleek and have a high BC. The Areotip certainly fills the looks and BCbill.

I am a freak - I want to shoot ML's, I have pretty much given up my centerfires, but I do wantvelocity and performance. With those thoughts in mind I really should be looking for a sleek pointy bullet to get the BC up.But in all the shooting I do and have done - I have a lot more faith in a standard low class looking bullet. I even shoot 45 cal bulllets vs the higher BC 44 cal bullets.

Why? I hope you are asking, because Ihave made these decisions.
1. I am shooting a ML not a modern CF
2. I know my max range is in the 200 yard range
3. I do not shoot 150 grain loads...
4. I am looking for bullet performance from 25 yards to 200 yards - from highest velocity to lowest velocity that I might shoot.
5. Bullet BC's in this short range and given velocities are not as important as aCenterFire.

If I were going to use Power Belts - I would probably use the HP's vs the Areo Tips. There have been problems reported using the Areo Tip at close ranges and high velocity. Not the typical blow-up of Power Belts but the bullet actually shooting all the way through without exspansion. The next thing would be to reduce velocities as FG has suggested - I am confident this will enhance the performance of the bullet.Which defeats my goal of velocity...

If you are going to shoot a conical or you are required to shoot a conical then there are some really good conicals out there to be had. These better conicals can be made for your bore, fit your bore correctly. These conicals beat the heck out of the bulk conicals on the market that are built to fit all barrels. I think one of the bigger mis-conceptions is that it is OK to shoot light lead conicals at big game. It would be my suggestion that you go the opposit direction go heavier - less likely to "blow-up" on contact. When I am required to shoot conicals I do shoot a 460 grain conicals and they are extremly effective.

If you choose Power Belts for ease of loading - then that is probaly the best choice you can make...

RE: bullets
 

I think the problem is that you pay $85 for a pack of bullets that you can't push with more than 20g of powder or they either don't expand at all or they explode. Seems like there's a fine line you have to hit to make them work.

With most other conicals, you can shoot them over a large range of powder to tailor them to what you need in any given situation and get great performace. I think most people have the feeling like is it really worth the trouble?

My $0.02

RE: bullets
 

$10.?? for a pack of 15-20 is a good deal.

As for FPS, i dont give a crap how fast the bullet is going, they didnt have all this fancy stuff 100 years ago, didnt have a large assortment of bullets,powder that we have these days. The hunter knowing his limits is what is most important. Ive stopped myself from pulling the trigger on a # of animals due to the wind. Hell, thats what we practice when we're out on the range and the wind kicks up, dont we?

The typical hunter wants a bullet that puts game down fast and does its job. The Powerbelt has done the best for me and you all know how picky i am.

150 yards is max for me with the steel blade sights and to be quite honest, that might be a little to far due to the fact that ive never shouldered this rifle and held the sights on an animal that far. Was only able to do the longer shots with the old Winchester.

RE: bullets
 

FG

You do know that FPS will detirmine energy, trajectory, and the course of the bullet do you not????

And I really try to avoid this situation as much as possible - but i will be prepared.

I am not sure what you are saying here but if you are implying you quit shooting when the wind comes up.. I would say NO I don't - I continue to shoot to improve my skills in that situation... especially when I am just shooting paper.

The old timers you seem to refer to didn't stop either they learned how to shoot in all conditions by reading the conditions and believe me they knew their velocities maybe not by the numbers we use today - more from dead-reckoning and practice. If they could improve their velocity they would - one of the reasonsthey used such long barrels... increased burning efficiency of the BP=better velocity.

One other thing hunting today is nothing like hunting then... we have removed so much habitat and reduced populations so drastically. It will never be the same.

RE: bullets
 

:D:D this is getting pathetic. seriously and you know it is. Like you said, Know your limits and 150 yards is my limit with 80 grains pyrodex p and that 225 powerbelt;) I believe you helped me out with a chart and i forget how much energy that powerbelt was carrying at 150 yards.

Now i suppose i will go out later on and learn how to tell how fast the wind is blowing rather than just waiting for it to settle down, so i can squeeze the shot and hope i judged right. Shooting in high wind is like shooting at an animal while its at full run. Better to just let it settle down.

Less game means harder hunting, spookier animals doesnt it?