Have you considered ............
01-22-2008, 02:07 PM
#11
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 426
RE: Have you considered ............
I am going to defend the newbie here. Its all in how muzzleloaders are marketed today. I started this time last year with my muzzleloader. If it were not for this forum and a few others, I would be shooting an sst and 150g of powder because thats what I was told would work.
Being the anile person I am I did my research, subsequently absorbing all the info I could from you guys.
Unfortunately, thats not the real world for a lot of guys. They buy, they shoot and thats it. There is very little information on the "how to" of muzzleloading. Here in my area of Indiana, the gun clubs are few and far between and most can not give too much advise on muzzleloaders.
Forums like this are a true blessing....pass it on!
Being the anile person I am I did my research, subsequently absorbing all the info I could from you guys.
Unfortunately, thats not the real world for a lot of guys. They buy, they shoot and thats it. There is very little information on the "how to" of muzzleloading. Here in my area of Indiana, the gun clubs are few and far between and most can not give too much advise on muzzleloaders.
Forums like this are a true blessing....pass it on!
01-22-2008, 06:24 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 591
RE: Have you considered ............
If the load shoots good for you, chances are it will kill a deer. In my sidelock, 90gr RS & a 385gr Great Plains works good.In my Omega I like a 250gr Shockwave, and most recently a 240gr Cheap Shot under a130gr charge. Although my sidelock isn't for shots much over 100yds, when I take my Omega out I want something that will shoot flat to 200yds for the open-country muleysof western Nebraska. A heavy charge and an aerodynamic bullet means less drop at extended ranges. More forgiveness for range estimation and holdover. That's not something to worry about with open sights, you won't be shooting that far anyways.
01-22-2008, 06:46 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Renfrew County, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,392
RE: Have you considered ............
ORIGINAL: harter66
I see lots of questions posted in here like "Have I got enough gun , I can only shoot a 300grn bangwhamer uber slug with 80 grs of FFG in my 45 whats it ".
It makes me nuts some times . The 45-70 has slain man and beast in every field with a lil sissy 350-500 grn bullet soundering allong at a measly 1800fps (only in the last 60-70yrs hopped up to a blistering 2000-2200fps) propelled by less in some cases alot less than 70grs of FFG . And that hot rod the 45 Colts launches a 250 at 850fps with a paltry 37grs and is considered a 50+ yrd deer slayer.
Now I know that a cartrige is "cheating a little" but aren't all these 209 inlines a closed sealed breach?
I just saw a new .45 magnum ,the builder escapes me ,that is rated for 3 50 grn pellets and a 250grn bullet . The 45-110-500 aka "the Quigley gun" matches the 458 Win mag . The above load would be about a 45-150-250 and that pushes the realm of the 460 Weatherby .
Just seems to me that the purety of the front stuffer is lost at some point and/or we've lost sight of just how little it takes to "cleanly and humanly harvest" an animal we intend to eat .
I see lots of questions posted in here like "Have I got enough gun , I can only shoot a 300grn bangwhamer uber slug with 80 grs of FFG in my 45 whats it ".
It makes me nuts some times . The 45-70 has slain man and beast in every field with a lil sissy 350-500 grn bullet soundering allong at a measly 1800fps (only in the last 60-70yrs hopped up to a blistering 2000-2200fps) propelled by less in some cases alot less than 70grs of FFG . And that hot rod the 45 Colts launches a 250 at 850fps with a paltry 37grs and is considered a 50+ yrd deer slayer.
Now I know that a cartrige is "cheating a little" but aren't all these 209 inlines a closed sealed breach?
I just saw a new .45 magnum ,the builder escapes me ,that is rated for 3 50 grn pellets and a 250grn bullet . The 45-110-500 aka "the Quigley gun" matches the 458 Win mag . The above load would be about a 45-150-250 and that pushes the realm of the 460 Weatherby .
Just seems to me that the purety of the front stuffer is lost at some point and/or we've lost sight of just how little it takes to "cleanly and humanly harvest" an animal we intend to eat .
Not many BP loads in that realm I don't think. Could be wrong here, but....
Add to Wishlist
Remove Item
Cartridge
458 Win Mag
Bullet Wt. Grs.
500
Bullet Type
Nosler Partition
CXP Guide No.
Game Guide 3 Large Heavy Game
Barrel Length (in)
-
Velocity in Feet Per Second (fps)
Muzzle
2240
100
2000
200
1776
300
1572
400
1390
500
1237
Energy in Foot Pounds (ft-lbs.)
Muzzle
5570
100
4440
200
3503
300
2742
400
2145
500
1699
01-22-2008, 07:23 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 300
RE: Have you considered ............
its always fun to try something new, but i have yet to go where i went with my first ml kill with a 45cal cva longrifle that i made from a kit, loaded with a patched round ball. i was the only kid on the block to even own a ml. that was 27 years ago and from that time i have tried lots of other sidelocks and inlines, but never had that feeling with the new stuff as with that old cva. i curse these new guns but they sure shoot good. i'm more than sure the new ml hunter of today feels the same way i did back then even if he's shooting some sabot rounds with a 150gr of pellets out of a $1000. or higher inline with a $800 scope. you know that little spike hit the ground stone dead. the only way i could hit the target was to aim 4inches high and alittle to the left.
01-22-2008, 07:40 PM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
RE: Have you considered ............
"The 45-70 has slain man and beast in every field with a lil sissy 350-500 grn bullet soundering allong at a measly 1800fps"
Believe that the original military load was a 405 grain bullet and 70 grains of BP for about 1,400 fps. I do understand what you are saying here.For a few years i hunted with 130-150 grains of Pyrodex. Found out that such heavy loads arenotnecessary. I shoot onlya fewloads in myinlines. Do not really care what the velocity of those bullets are. They kill deer and hogs as if struck by a bolt from above and that is all that matters to me.
Believe that the original military load was a 405 grain bullet and 70 grains of BP for about 1,400 fps. I do understand what you are saying here.For a few years i hunted with 130-150 grains of Pyrodex. Found out that such heavy loads arenotnecessary. I shoot onlya fewloads in myinlines. Do not really care what the velocity of those bullets are. They kill deer and hogs as if struck by a bolt from above and that is all that matters to me.
01-22-2008, 08:30 PM
#16
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 448
RE: Have you considered ............
When I got my inline the first thing I did was go out and shoot the recommended load of 150 grs of Pyrodex and a 250 grain bullet. Wow what a pounding...then I when and bought several types of powder but wanted to stay with the 250 grain bullet. I started testing out different loads from 90 grains back up to 150 grains in both loose and pellets and truly in the end what shot best was the 3x50 Pyrodex pellets, T/C 250 grain shockwave bullet and I use the VariFlame primer system. If I would have been able to get the same POI with less powder I would have been all over that, but in the end I went with what worked best.
There are those that no matter what you tell them they will claim your doing it wrong by their book and thats just life I guess. However when you put all the variable to the test in the end it will always be what works best for you and that might just not work so well for the other 99.99999% of the other shooters. That doesn't mean theyare stupid and buying into the Magnum BS...in the end I think we are all on here to lend some advice and try to help out our fellow shooters. It serves no ones best interest to belittle everyone who has a different view on things. Just my .02 cents worth...
There are those that no matter what you tell them they will claim your doing it wrong by their book and thats just life I guess. However when you put all the variable to the test in the end it will always be what works best for you and that might just not work so well for the other 99.99999% of the other shooters. That doesn't mean theyare stupid and buying into the Magnum BS...in the end I think we are all on here to lend some advice and try to help out our fellow shooters. It serves no ones best interest to belittle everyone who has a different view on things. Just my .02 cents worth...
01-23-2008, 07:59 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
RE: Have you considered ............
I'm under guned shooting 85gr. max in my 50 cals and 100gr in my 54. I think I should morgauge the farm and buy one of those ultmants and shoot 4 pellets. Shoot most of my shots are 100 yards or less. I need one of those kill it and grill it on the spot rifles.
not really
Al
not reallyAl
01-23-2008, 08:37 PM
#18
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wide open Nevada
Posts: 515
RE: Have you considered ............
Huntaway,
actually the 45-110 matches the 458 out to 300yrds differant bullet weights,would have to look it up again in my Lyman 48th edition .
It is nice to see there is some logic left in the world .
Thanks for the like minded insights .
Maybe it is just that I'm just a little too rooted in the past . I shoot a hawken with patched balls, a 2 3/4 12ga (plastic cases), and a lowly '06 fed with cup and cores and 4831 , and a plain jane Bear with cedar shafts and natural fletches .
actually the 45-110 matches the 458 out to 300yrds differant bullet weights,would have to look it up again in my Lyman 48th edition .
It is nice to see there is some logic left in the world .
Thanks for the like minded insights .
Maybe it is just that I'm just a little too rooted in the past . I shoot a hawken with patched balls, a 2 3/4 12ga (plastic cases), and a lowly '06 fed with cup and cores and 4831 , and a plain jane Bear with cedar shafts and natural fletches .
