From my Encore, I shoot PB 240 gr .40 cal over 120 grains of loose Pyrodex, ignited using the Variflame system also. I can consistantly shoot 1" five shot groups at 100 yards off the bench from a fouled bore. I have proven this system to several guys at the range over the (209 primer/pellet) combination. Once guys see for themselves how consistantly this combination shoots, they can't believe it.

This is an excerpt from a post I made in another thread. I certainly applies here too.

I think its BS I get the same accuracy with all 209 primers the special muzzleloader ones are so dirty in the Triumph as to necessitate cleaning the breach plug every 10 shots but the regular win 209 for reloading shot shells work just fine.
If you have a sabot thats tight enough for fine accuracy I dont think that the 209 could be moveing it off the powder, I just dont believe you could possably get minute of angle or anywhere near it if that was happening.
Of course that may be one of the reasons a really tight combination is needed for good accuracy.
Maybe Sabotloader will tell us if he get good accuracy with a little better fitting combo with the 25apc conversion? Lee

what is the veriflame system you're talking about? I'm new to muzzleloading so I haven't heard of a lot of this stuff.

-E-

LEE

I have the 25ACP conversion installed in both of my Omega and a 32 H&R Mag conversion installed in my A&H. I see absolutely know difference in accuracy between these conversions and a regular 209... The only reason I use the conversions... they are cleaner in the breech area...

I will even climb out on the limb a little further... from Remington's I have shot:

Cheddite 209 primers
Remington 209-4 primers
Remington 209 Premieres
Federal 209
Winchester 209
Winchester Triple Seven 209 primers

I can not tell you I have seen a difference in accuracy with any of this either but some a definitely cleaner than others....

Variflame - is a battery cup like a 209 primer with the ability to install a small pistol primer - Distributed by Precision Rifle... I have one of these also that I want try in the White, not because of accuracy but maybe a little less mess in the breech - Have not had a chance to try them yet...

For smokeless MLer, that is true. I had a misfire this year that blew the bullet, sabot and powder out of the barrel. I was dangerious, since I didn't know how much unburned powder was in the barrell. For smokeless, unlike regular MLer, you need the hottest 209 you can get. Therefore Federal 209, Winchester or CCI Mags. No Kleenbore or 777 primers they are NOT hot enough. There was a post over on the Savage Forum on shooting a sabot from a rifle with different primers and measuring the speed of the sabot as a surrogate for "hotness/power" of the primer. I kept the post and will email it to you if you want to see it. PM me with your email address. Chap Gleason

The Variflame primer system is one method of using a small rifle primer to ignite the powder charge. I believe all of the small rifle primer systems mentioned in this thread (Variflame, 25acp, 32 H&R) were all developed by PR Bullets. The biggest difference with the Variflame is that no breech plug modification is necessary, because the dimensions of the brass cup that hold the small rifle primer are about the same as a 209 primer. So, the Variflame cup seats in an existing 209 primer breech.

One advantage to using these small rifle primer systems; is that they are cleaner. The 25acp and 32H&R and the cleanest because the shell casing is inserted into the modified breech plug and any blowback following ignition is captured very effectively.

However, the reason these system were developed by PR Bullets WAS NOT to be cleaner. That is merely an added bonus. The reason they were developed was to use an ignition source that was hot, but much less powerful than the over powered 209 primer. That is the God's honest truth. Read the development yourself at prbullet.com