Accuracy Problems
 

I'm shooting a CVA pro optima. 80 grains JSG. 295 grain hollow point powerbelt. I shot about 5 shots all over the paper (approx. 8 inch group) at 100 yard. All of the sudden I shot 3 shots within 2 inches. Shooting off a bench with good trigger pull and stability. Then my next shot was 8 inches high and left. Next shot was level and 4 inches right. I measure my powder with a test tube type measurer and tap on it until the powder goes down to 80 grains. I try to do the same thing every time with the load. How important is the exact amount of powder and is JSG any good for accuracy or should i go to something else.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

Ive seen to many posts about poor performance from the JSG. I'd ditch it, switch to either Pyrodex or Triple 7.
You're also one the right track with 80 grains. Keep that as your Max load with powerbelts.
Also, dont tap on the powder measure, Use like a credit card "stiff paper or plastic sheet" and cut the powder off the top thats humped over.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

I'm wondering how tight the Powerbelts are in your bore.
If they're too loose, you might not get consistent accuracy, although Powerbelts can fit looser than most saboted bullets and still do OK.
I never tried that powder, but with those I've tried, a couple of tenths of a grain isn't going to make that kind of difference in point of impact.
Are you using a scope? If so, I'd check to make sure everything is tight.
Also - is this the first load you have tried in this gun? By that I mean, did you have good accuracy with something else?
If so, I'd go back to what you know works and make sure the gun and scope are ok - then you'll know it's some element of the new charge/bullet that's giving you trouble.

Good Luck

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

I personally would try some Pyrodex RS. A lot of times we forgo accuracy of a projectile for convenience of cleaning. Some rifles just do not like APP or their sister powders. Then, it could be with the powder you are currently shooting it might not like powerbelts. I find powerbelts shoot best with Pyrodex or Goex. Also I do not push them too fast. But your 80 grains while might be fine for a lot of projectiles, if you want to keep shooting powerbelts, try kicking the powder charge up to 100 grains. APP to me just does not feel as powerful as the other powders out there. I have no chronograph data to back up my feeling though.

Another thing you could try if legal where you hunt.. get some 250 gr Shockwaves and some 300 grain XTP's and try them with your powder. Or just get a different powder like Pyrodex RS and try the powerbelts. A lot of this is all experimentation until you find a load.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

"APP to me just does not feel as powerful as the other powders out there."

Exactly right. Tests run on BP substitutes by the NRA show APP and JSG to be much weaker than Pyrodex RS.

MadeJSG work well inmy Encore.There are some simple rules to follow if you want to use JSG:

1. JSG likes a very tight fitting sabot. The Powerbelt may not be tight enough.

2.JSGalso likes to be tamped very well.

3. Consistency in measuring is very impoprtant with JSG. Your procedure for measuring the charge may be inconsistent. Pourthe powder into your measure until it is overfull. Then strike it off level.Do not shake or tap the measure.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

BigSarge,Since I have gotten BAD powder from APP [same co.] I have a suggestion for you [there is nothing more frustrating than what you are experanceing] what I did and what I suggest you do is to get a can of RS and one of 777-FF and work up a load with each. Theres a number of possabilities the two I would look at first is bad powder and that you gun might not like that powder. When I experanced my difficulty with it it had been shooting very nice groups and when I bought some new powder it did just what you discribe. Lee

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

Here is what was published in Oct in American Rifleman on velocity performance of JSG. It is was the most variable powder. Since you having problems switch to Pyrodex or 777 loose. Chap Gleason

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

Here is the data on 777 and you can see that the powder is more consistent shot to shot. Now I don't think it would cause 8" difference, but if you had loose PBs and inconsistent velocity in the PB, then I think that combination is trouble. Chap Gleason

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

I would definitely try another powder and get rid of Ol' Mr. Traitor's Gold. Ever since he points to his "buddy shooting his 5000th shot shooting a TC(actually knight disc) I have no respect for him, he is so cheap he can't be honest, he had to dub over the original commercial....ok off of the tirade....

I have had great luck with T7 and Pyrodex RS in the past...

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

Those charts are good information... thanks. :D

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

I'd try a different powder, specifically - Black powder.
I learned years ago when sighting in a new rifle use Black Powder first to determine the accuracy potential, then switch to the substitutes to see if any of them are compatible with the gun.
Long story, but I almost got rid of a new gun because I first used the old Clean Shot powder in it. It shot terrible with every bullet style and load I tried and I cleaned it and stuck it back in the gun cabinet thinking I'd trade it off first chance I got. A few months later I was having accuracy problems with another rifle I knew was capable of great accuracy. It had shot well a time or two with the substitute powder, but suddenly just wouldn't shoot well anymore. I had some Goex in my range box and switched to it and the rifle started performing again! Then the light went on in my head and I remembered I had never tried real BP in the rifle I had set aside as junk. Dug it out, went to the range and shot 1" groups at 100 yards with it using Goex!!!!!!!!!
I've found that Pyrodex is usually as dependable as BP for accuracy, butmany ofsubs can be very erratic under some conditions. I've had rifle that shot really good groups one day with APP, then terrible groups a day or two later with the same load. I haven't used enough T-7 to have confidence in it yet, but so far it seemsto beconsistent and gives decent accuracy.
For now, my hunting load is either BP or Pyrodex in all my rifles. Perhaps someday I'll find a dependable substitute, but for now I'd rather spend an extra few minutes cleaning the rifle than take a chance on poor accuracy when I'm hunting.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

It was never mentioned how often you were cleaning or if you were cleaning between shots. I have the regular Optima not the Pro series and it prefers a spit patch between loads. I used to swab with the windex mixture but found it groups better with just a spit patch and then dry patch. As far as powder, it really likes 777 FFg. Good luck and have fun.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

"I measure my powder with a test tube type measurer and tap on it until the powder goes down to 80 grains."

If I understand what you are saying you are using a tube that is marked in grains but not adjustable, then tapping it until it settles to 80 grains. I think that would be a rather inconsistant way of measuring powder. You need to spend $5 or $10 and get a real powder measure that is adjustablewith the swivel funnel top. I bought several over the last few years at Walmart during their end of season closeouts for around $3 or $4 each.

I have so far not had good luck with APP/JSG powder. It averages about 300fps slower than 777 of the same volumn. My son's Optima works very well with Pyrodex P and a 250 Shockwave (80 to 100 grains of powder). We always swab with a spit patch between shots for best consistancy.

Another thing to consider, try a heavier Powerbelt i.e. 348. Some guns prefer a heavier bullet for best accuracy. Also you may get better pressure from your JSG with the heavier bullet and thus get the bullet to "bump up" into the rifling more consistantly for better accuracy. Using more powder may help the 295's for the same reason.

Good luck with it.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

Thanks for all the help. I'm heading out to do some shooting now. Gonna play some more with the JSG just to keep from throwing it away. I would rather burn it a little at a time. Then Im going to try some other powders and see what happens. The good thing is I enjoy the heck out of shooting, and experimenting. In fact I like it alot more than my wife or my pocket book allows.

RE: Accuracy Problems
 

Consider changing your ignition source if you are using 209 primers. There is a lot of good data being generated that shows that 209 primers are just too powerful and are the source of inconsistant accuracy. Go to prbullet.com and read what they have to say about switching to one of the small rifle primer ignition systems. The small rifle primer and Pyrodex loose powder combination is the most consistant system I have found. I also got away from Powerbelts for poor bullet performance. I found they were a very soft bullet and were flattening out on impact rather than mushrooming. I did not feel I was getting the penetration with them that I should.