Precision rifle dead centers
 

Hi everyone,
this is my first post here so bear with me. I am Hunting late elk in Wa state and I am wondering what you all think about the precision rifle dead center bullets?? I am shooting a Knight bighorn 50 cal #11 percussion cap (state law) 120 grains pyrodex rs, 300 grain dead center bullets. We are not allowed to use scopes on muzzleloaders in this state so the gun is set up with fiber optic sights. I have been to the range numerous times and the bullets group very nice at 100 yds, butI am more concerned with how they react upon impact. Any feedback would be appreciated, Thanks in advance.

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

huntinfool41

PR makes very good bullets and they normally fly very well.

I set my son-in-law up with some 300 grain all lead Knights for hunting in the tri-cities area and in the Blues above Walla Walla. I feel the 300 grain will work just fine on whitetail. If I were shooting an all lead bullet at elk I really think I would go a little heavier. The all lead bullet can sometimes not hold together in the lighter weights. Here in Idaho when when we go to ML season next week I will go to a 460 grain Bull Shop conical for elk. They are such a thick skinned animal especially this time of year - you have to have a bullet that gets in and get through.

With all of that, I do think your 300 grain will work well especially with the proper bullet placement. The heavier conical (which is a slip fit conical) will allow a greater margin of error. Given an elk in front of me at a reasonable range and a 300 grain lead bullet - I am going to shoot that bullet at that elk and not worry about it.

Oh! almost forgot - Welcome to hunting net this is one of the best forums you will ever find....

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

I've never hunted elk with a muzzleloader. A couple years ago, a person asked me what pure lead projectile I would recommend to them for elk (perhaps he was in the same type of State requirements youfaced). Not really knowing too much about elk and how they react, but knowing the kind of rifle he owned (since I owned the same one) I recommended a Buffalo Bullet 375 grain SSB. He took my recommendation and discovered like my rifle it shot excellent with 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f. He later reported to me he was able to shoot a large cow at 80 yards with that load, broadside behind the front shoulder through the boiler room. She walked about 20 steps and just laid down he said. He found the bullet against the skin on the other side of the animal.

Back to your question. I do think that if you placed that bullet in the right place it should achieve the necessary penetration to hit the vitals, expand, and do the damage necessary. I am sure you would not get pass through, but you should get the penetration needed. Especially since you have an accurate load. Shot placement as you know is critical. I am suggesting this because elk have been harvested with simple roundball. Roundball have no where near the ballistics of your projectile. Yet they are able to penetrate, enter the vitals, and do the necessary damage to dispatch the animal. I see no reason why your 300 grain pure lead bullet would not have similar results. Again, I have not shot a elk with a muzzleloader, but have tested numerous all lead projectiles here at the house. They always seem to have good down range energy, and expansion. Good luck, you have a great rifle there... And welcome to the forum. Its great having you here.

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

Well I shot a bull and a cow so far with 54 round ball one shot for each both inthe back edge of the shoulder all most identical shots both shots went though both lungs and went over the top of the heart and stropped in the rib cage on the far side almost through it both walk a short distance and fell over. Lee

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

I've never shot an elk so take my opinion for what it's worth, hehehe. I love the precision rifle bullets. They saved my ML career. I've shot 4-5 deer with them and recovered 3 of the bullets. All expanded well and penetrated well also. They retain their weight and I think that's very important for penetration. I shot a buck through the shoulder this year and the bullet stayed together and was recovered under the skin on the far side of the deer. So, I think you've got a great bullet. Here's what i would do.....go to the precison rifle website www.prbullet.com and look around. Then, go to the "contact us" section. Call Cecil and explain to him what you are going to hunt, how long you expect your shot to be, what type of rifle and what twist you are shooting along with the powder you plan to use. He will be glad to steer you towards the proper bullet for the job. I do know they killed quite a few caribou with 175 and 195 grain dead center bullets. So, check out their website and contact them and they will hook you up with the right bullet to do the job. Let us know what you decide on and what the results are. Thanks, Greg

P.S. - I did a little more research on the website and it said something to the effect that for deeper penetration you would want to go with the larger diameter bullet. So, in your case, the .45 caliber in the 300 or 340 grain variety. But, call Cecil, he'll hook you up. Thanks again, Greg

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

I shot a button buck with a 240gr QT, and while it did a very impressive job of scrambling organs, it didn't make it through and there wasn't much left of the bullet in the hide on the opposite side. It was a boiler room shot, hit a rib going in, but no other bones. The deer weighed maybe 75lbs, so I'd call penetration marginally adequate. If it'd been a much bigger deer, who knows. Seeing that, I personally, would NOT use them for Elk. My opinion is that the sub-caliber soft lead (they are pure lead) is too soft and the bullets are designed to be too reactive for elk sized game. I'd use a good jacketed bullet or a semi-hard cast conical like a Hornady GP conical at least. My first choice would be any of the .452cal Barnes ML bullets. They are pretty wicked performers with great expansion and excellent penetration. Very accurate in my Savage too. But not a good plinking bullet as they cost over $1/shot.

Mike

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

Mike, Do you shoot the supplied sabot with the .452 Barnes? Which Barnes is it, the SpitFire MZ, the TMZ, the XPB or the Triple Shock X bullet in .45-70 or the Barnes X in .45-70. All work, some better than others in the Savage. I shoot a Savage and would like to work up a good shooting Barnes Bullet, Sabot and Powder Combination. Chap Gleason

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

I've used the Spitfire w/o the polymer tip, in 245gr with the supplied sabot. They fit tighter than heck, but the accuracy is great. I've shot them with both N-110 (44gr) and AA 5744 (41 and 44gr). N-110 provided the best velocity, but accuracy was (and always seems to be) best with 5744 and velocity is still very good and recoil is acceptable.

I shot a 150lb doe with one last year with a spitfire, full broadside from about 50 yards. Bullet went in about 3" above the "elbow" on her front leg, and out the other side a bit lower. It smashed a rib going in and out, and her heart and lungs were blendered completely. Exit hole was almost the size of a baseball, and she dropped at the shot. She is only the second deer I've anchored right where I shot her because I try not to shoot through the shoulder and definately don't take what I consider to be foolish head/neck shots (aim small/miss small). Most run 20-50 yards before they realize that they're already dead.

My only gripes with the Spitfire is that it's a real pain to load because it's very tight, and the cost is prohibitive for anything but hunting. I shoot 250gr Hornady XTP's on MMP standard black sabots for fun, and they work very well on game too. Since they shoot to a different POI than the Spitfires, and my rifle is sighted in right now with them, I'll probably just use the XTP's this year since the season starts in about 2 weeks. I'll probably try to stock up on some of the new TMZ Spitfires after the season is over and they go on sale.

Mike

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

OK, the supplied sabot. I have heard some shoot the Barnes MZ with a crushed rib sabot and it loads earier.I have about 5 packages of crush rib for my Noslers, so I will givet that a try wiht the Barnes MZ. I shoot 5744 also, I have tried 4198 but I had several misfires, so I don't consider the 4198 a good powder to hunt with. Chap Gleason

RE: Precision rifle dead centers
 

Thanks eveyone for all the feedback,
I did some research witha localMLspecialist and he said the 300 grain PR bullet was just to light for elk. He recommends powerbelt 405 grainHPlead bullets,changing from #11 percussion to musket percussion, andtwo 50 grain pellets of tripple 7. I have everything to change out the percussion caps so thats not an issue, I just want to know what you all think of his advise?? Keep in mind that in Washington state the bullets have to be lead but they can have polymer tips!! Thank's, HF41