BKE

a good on-line or mail order BP supplier. I've gotten recommendations on powder and charges to start outwithand now am wondering aboutcaps. In reading some posts here I get the impression thatthere are differances strenght/ignition wise so needsome advice there.I quess the load might determine which cap to choose so what's been recommended is 80gr's of pyrodex or 60gr's of BP both with patch and ball for my T/C 50cal. Hawkens.

I know absolutely nothing soneed to ask the differances in BP vs. pyrodex vs. ??. Would a charge of 60gr BP be equivelant to 80gr pyrodex, andare you talkingpyrodex when you referrance using 1,2 or 3 pellets.

Final for today,any suggestions on a reliable supplier? The local shop I use for my bow equipment seems geared up for in-lines so I may have to order everything I'm going to be needing (tools, cleaning stuff, shooting stuff, everything needed by a guy starting from scratch []). Glad I at least have therifle. Thanks in advance all.

goatbrother

Grafs and Maine Powder House come to mind as powder suppliers, there are others, do a google on gun powder. With most all powders 60 grains is 60 grains, the standard of measure is by volumn. I don't use pellets, too expensive and not flexible enough to customize your loads. They are fine if you don't mind paying 4x as much for your powder. Pellets are made by Hogdons in the form of pyrodex and Tripple 7, others make pellets or sticks some call them. They too are in grain (volumn) equivelents. Some brands of powder are more powerfull than others but are all measured with a black powder volumn measure. RWS makes the best/hottest cap, their no. 1075 is what I use and they work great, much more reliable than any other I've used.

Rock Lock

Pyrodex or BP is a personal choice. You can buy Pyro in pellets or powder form. A charge of BP can be weighed on a grain scale but Pyro RS is only used with a measure. RS stands for Rifle /Shotgun. The P Pyro is for Pistol.
Pellets come in preformed charge weights. I'd suggest you start with RS Powder and a powder measure. Start about 60 Grains and work up in 5 grain steps until you hit a load that shoots fine in your gun. It's almost impossible to say what load will work best since all of them shoot different in different guns. Start about 15 yards so you should hit paper. This is to test your sights.When you are in the black move out to 25 and then 50 when you're hitting regularly. Use a solid rest so you don't shake while sighting in. When you have a good load for a 3-5 shot group stick with it. Pyro works best with hot caps. Hope this helps.
Rock Lock

lemoyne

First off you need a .490 or .495 ball and a ticking patch to start with you might want to get a short starter with a stud and cut your patching in strips,start the ball on the end of the strip about one inch in and use a patch knife or strait razor and cut it off even with the barrel then push it down on top the powder [making sure you put the powder in first] I personally would not use 777 in a side lock it is the hardest powder to ignite, I also would not use pellets in a side lock. Your choices in caps are cci regular not to good CCI magnum better and 1075 RWS the best I know of black powder is better than most people credit but can be hard to find a source for, Pyrodex will do just fine and a lot of people like APP or Pinicle which if they are availableand your gun likes them will do fine. 60 gr is a good starting and target load, I use 110 or 120 depending on which gun I use, 110 is for the 1-48 twist and 120 is for the 160 twist. [for deer] Lee

Tahquamenon

RWS Dynamit Nobel 1075 caps. Simply the best IMHO.

Powders, up to you.
Substitutes can be had at local retailers.
Hodgdon 777 FFG is very good in a sidelock as is Black Mag'3. Not a Pyrodex fan, I'd much rather shoot traditional black.

For traditional back powder Swiss is the supreme powder in my view. Goex is also very good. I've heard that KIK is good as well. Where I purchase my BP:
http://www.powderinc.com/

Good Luck!

Tahquamenon

lemoyne

Lots of choices, some people with certain guns have more problems with difficult ignition using # 11 caps than others also the brand of cap enters into it some times, black and pyrodex were what we normally shot before they came out with inlines the other subs are actually designed for inlines but a few of them work in side locks some people even use 777 I just dont need any chance of ignition difficulties when I have a deer in front of me.
When you are ready to do a bit of shopping try here
http://www.grafs.com/index.php
Graf and Sons is a good place to shop or window shop.
Lee

cayugad

The Start Out powder charge recommendations are just that.. recommendations. We know that the rifle will not probably get the best group with those initial suggested powder charges. We only don't want someone starting with such a high powder charge, that the bypass the most accurate charge. As you work the load up in the rifle, you will get a tight group. Then as you increase the powder charge, the group will begin to open up. Finally it will start to spray the target. Each rifle and bullet combination reach a point of diminished returns. At that point you do not gain in velocity like before by the increased powder charge, and also you do not get the kind of accuracy that you are looking for.

As for the differences in strength and ignition.. all powders have basic characteristics. The base powder to keep in mine is Black powder in 2f strength. You can compare all other powders to that.Here is an example.. Also all powders have different flash points or the amount of heat needed to ignite it. Black Powder is the easiest, and the others follow after that. The exact difference in them I do not know.

100 grains of Black Powder 2f in strength (meaning produces similar velocities with the same projectile) = 100 grains Pyrodex RS = 100 grains American Pioneer Powder 2f(although many feel APP is just a little less powerful) = 100 grains Pinnacle 2f = 85 grains of Triple Se7en 2f = 80-85 grains of Black Mag3

100 grains of Black Powder 3f = 100 grains of Pyrodex P = 100 grains of American Pioneer Powder 3f= 100 grains of Pinnacle 3f= 100 grains of Triple Se7en 2f or 90 grains of Triple Se7en 3f= 100 grains of Black Mag3

When you shoot pellets, Pyrodex RS pellets are equal in strength to the standard Triple Se7en 2f pellets, APP & Shockey Gold Sticks approximately. This all changes finally as again, with diminished returns in pellets VS loose powder, we find that 90 grains of loose powder will approximately give you the velocity of two pellets. 120 grains of loose powder will give you the velocity of approximately 150 grain of pellets.

Also sense you shoot a rifle with a #11 ignition system like a T/C Hawkins. Then do not shoot pellets. Shoot loose powder. Pyrodex or Black Powder will probably do you very well. Also some of the other powders work fine in them. A .490 roundball and patch is what would be needed for a projectile, or maxiball, great plains conicals, or REAL conicals. #11 Caps vary in strength as well. Use as hot a cap as you can. RWS, CCI Magnums, Remington 40% Hotter, and last are the standard CCI cap.

If you need any help, ask. I hope I have not really confused you now..

wabi

My experience with a sidelock & #11 caps is that real BP is easiest to light. Of the subs I'd choose Pyrodex as the easiest to light consistantly. With most of the rest I've experienced hang-fires with about all of them with even the hottest #11 caps. An occassional hang-fire with Pyrodex, but better than most other subs.
When I shoot anything but BP in a sidelock I use a Hubbard Mag-Spark 209 conversion nipple. It replaces the #11 nipple & uses 209 primers. Musket cap nipples are also readily available and might be better than #11 caps?

BKE

Thanks everyone,all good info that I will keep and use!