I have two muzzelloaders, bought them both when I wasn't looking to buy a gun, but people had one to sell.

First one is a Thompson Center .54 Cal Hawken, percussion cap. (only gave $100 for it, and it's beautiful looking, great stock, great barrel [inside and out]).

Second one is a Thompson Center .54 Cal Thunderhawk (inline, percussion cap, stainless barrel, thumbhole stock, leupold scope, gave $150 for it, good looking gun inside and out).

First off, I didn't get jipped on these buys, did I?

Secondly, what do I need to know about muzzelloading. I'm shooting Jim Shockeys Gold FFG powder in the Hawken, and Pyrodex Pellets in the Thunderhawk. I use T/C Bore Butter and T/C Bore Cleaner (#1000 I think).

Hawken is pretty much retired, just sits in the safe. The thunderhawk is my hunting gun (for muzzleloader season). What would you all suggest for cleaning (how many shots before cleaning? after every shot, every other shot, or what? or just clean after every shot while sighting in, then see how it shoots dirty?)

Plus, should I buy the conversion kit for the thunderhawk to get it to shoot 209 primers, or is it not really that big of a deal. The caps I shoot fire pretty fast, not much delay like there is with the hawken, but what I'm worried about is shooting in damp conditions.

thanks.

You did good on your purchase, especialy the Hawken.

I don't care for pellets personaly, I'd go with loose powder but that is just me. As long as the #11 caps are lighting the fire I'd stay with them, RWS is what I use, they are very hot. Cleaning will be dictated by how hard the gun gets to load after shooting, if it loads easy just keep shooting. I shoot conicals in my guns with 777 powder, it is very clean burning and the powder you are using is clean too. Not unusual for me to shot all day without cleaning. As long as it loads well I wouldn't bother with the cleaning, unless you get better accuracy cleaning more often.

I think you will find if you go with loose powder, the caps you use now will be fine.

You made some great deals there. The Hawkins alone is worth over $300.00 in most cases, although I have picked two of them off auction sites for $150.00 & $200.00 so you really got a deal. The Thunderhawk, while older technology was a great inline. I remember when they came out, how people raved about their accuracy.

I was surprised that you said you were shooting Pyrodex pellet with a #11 cap system. If you hunt where it is damp or temperatures change a lot, you are going to experience problems shooting them pellets. I would not waste the money to convert the Thunderhawk to 209 ignition. Leave the rifle the way it was designed and shoot loose powder. The #11 cap is an excellent ignition source on loose powder, they are very weather proof, and loose powder is cheaper to shoot. Its a win win deal all around. Pellets, while convent, are over rated. You could actually try that JSG FFg in your Thunderhawk as well. Then you do not have to worry about swabbing. Give that a try. Any problems you are facing now I would suspect is because your shooting pellets with a #11 ignition. It is just not recommended because of the lack of consistancy.

Get some loose Pyrodex RS and load that with 100 grains of RS and what ever the Thunderhawk likes. That rifle will then fire without flaw. Be sure to prepare the barrel properly before you load it for your hunt, and you will not have problems. I hunt with a Black Diamond XR. I have the option of all three ignition systems and choose to hunt with the #11 cap. I find with the loose powder, that #11 not only makes the rifle go off perfect, but there is little to no crud build up.

As for the T/C Bore Butter.. it is a good conical and patch lube in the Hawkins. Other then that I have little use for it. The T/C #13 cleaner is junk IMO. You could get the same results at a cheaper price with a bottle of window cleaner from the Dollar Store, maybe better results. Clean the barrel spotless like you would a center fire or shotgun and then protect the bore with a coat of good gun oil.Good bore cleaners is Birchwood Casey#77 or Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. Try them, they work. Goodgunoil.. Birchwood Casey Sheath a.k.a. Barricade, Rem Oil with Teflon,andBreakFree CLP.Those oils will protect your rifle bore.

As for how many shots before cleaning.. On the range, swab the barrel (not clean the barrel mind you) between every shot. Remember, a damp patch with Windex on it, followed then two or even three dry ones. Then load just as normal. Also open that breech when you swab. As you work the patch, can you hear air moving through the nipple? If you can that mean that is also clear as well. Listen to your swabbing as well as look.

Before I hunt, I like to see how two shots work, without swabbing. I've seldom ever shot more then that. Once, I shot three times in one after noon. I filled three deer tags of course, but I never swabbed between any of the shots.

thanks for all the replies everyone.

So, I should start using loose powder instead of pellets? And should I go with RS, or keep using the FFG?

Also, Cayugad, what did you mean when you said "You could actually try that JSG FFg in your Thunderhawk as well. Then you do not have to worry about swabbing." Do you mean not have to swab between every shot, or what? I was just a little confused when I said that.

Again, thanks for all the help and information everyone.

Yes, shoot the loose powder. It will give you excellent performance.

What I meant was, Jim Shockey Gold 2f loose powder will shoot fine in your Thunderhawk, in case you do not want to invest in another brand of powder right now. I am currently testing American Pioneer Powder 2f in my Black Diamond XR and it is working excellent. I do find that instead of 100 grains I had to kick the powder charge up to 120 grains of loose, but the power and accuracy is exceptional.

Also shooting APP or JSG since they are sugar based, they do not need to be swabbed every time. For instance, I was able to shoot 12 XTP's with Pinnacle (another sugar based powder) without swabbing. I could have shot more, but ran out of projectiles. APP and JSG in many rifles do better when you do not swab between every shot. That is one reason I have been shooting it in my black powder shotgun as well.

You got two great guns at a very good price. There are several Hawken/Renegade shooters on this forum. Sabotloader has a couple of them. He shoots Nosler Partitions in them 250g. I like 300g Noslers. The Hawken would shoot better with loose Goex. I am not familiar with the Thunderhawk, so I will let others speak to it. Best Wishes on dialing your new rifles in. Chap Gleason