New Muzzleloader
 

Hi, my name is Dom and I'm buying my first muzzloader. I decided on the following rifles(without the thumbhole design): T/C Omega sst w/ Comp. stock, Omega sst w/ straight laminated stock and the Triumph with the weathershield finish.

I can get the Omega sst/laminated stock for $489(black comp. for $399) and the Triumph for $425(black comp./weathershield). All three guns are well within my price range so it really boils down todeciding between the three.I welcome any comment or suggestions. In other words, help me decide.

Thanks

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

ss/laminated. The syn. stocks are weak. Weather shields costs damn near as much as a ss version.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I've been reading so many posts about how nice these new Triumphs are, there must be something to them. The trouble is while the reports of the Triumph are great, we know that the Omega is a time tested rifle. That is a hard decision. I like both rifles but do not own either. If I were buying one, I would go with the Triumph simply because they have corrected some of the faults of the old Omega, and it has some new features that are very nice. Still with any of them you are not going to go wrong...

Good luck making a choice..

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Dominick

I have botha SS Omega and a blued Omega... I have both the grey/black laminate stock and the black synthetic. I prefer the black synthetic over the laminate stock.

The laminate stock is slick when wet, it adds undo weight to the gun, the stock is bulky thick for my hands - but it is certainly stronger than the black synthetic, but,, the black synthetic is an easily fixed problem.

I do prefer the Omega over the Triumph only for one reason - I am not fond of a break open design... It is my personal belief that the break opens are harder to keep zeroed and do not shoot as tight as a one piece gun, over the long period of time... just me.

Check this string out...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2472957

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

WOW, 1 vote for each. Thanks, but it really is a tough choice. If the triumph came with a stainless barrel and had a longer track record the decision might be easier but ease of cleaning is a big plus. I assume the 2nd shot loading without swabbingis difficult with all T/C's using triple-7?

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I would get the SS Laminate Omega. I have a Omega with a Synth. Stock. I am disappointed in it. I just ordered a Laminated stock. I do really like the Omega. My Father in Law has the triumph but not enough time to pass judgment.
Scott

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I have an Omega, blue with the Comp stock. Very accuracte gun. This review says the Triumph replaces the Omega, so get the Triumph:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/thompson-center_triumph.htm

Chap Gleason

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I'd take the Triumph for one reason...........to disagree with Sabotloader! :D

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I have both, all that a Triumph is an Omega thats elmininated blowback and is super easy to clean; other than that the break open action and the differances you will find between any two rifles because of harmonics is all there is. But I would not trade my Triumph for two Omegas. Lee

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

BTW, does the Triumph and Omega use the same scope mount? I plan on using Warne medium rings and one piece Maxima base.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

That says it all, you like the Triumph better. Chap Gleason

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

The Triumph only comes with a synthetic stock. I wonder if the flex issue exist with this gun too? Its a two piece stock so maybe not.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I personally believe that some of these issues have come from not getting the proper tension on the stock to mounting stud screws they should be torqued to 28 inch pounds to loose or to tight will create problems on most of the plastic stocks used to day; It really helps keep the same POI irregardless of what kind of stock you use, I do it on all my guns.Not holding it solid or to much stress can spoil the guns abailty to group I suspect these kind of problems when some one can not get groups under 2 inches. Lee

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

If you get the Omega check the front mounting screw boss on the barrel. Mine is loose and the screw is bottomed out. I think it might be the reason my POI has been all over the place. If I had it to do over again I would buy the Knight KRB (come to think of it I just did). The whole rifle is a lot more solid but also heavier.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Thanks. How dopowerbelts load in the omega and triumph?

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Its not how they load, Its if either one will shoot them good.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Alot of people complain about the difficulty in loading a T/C especially for a quick second shot when hunting. Someone claimed that he was able to follow up a shockwave with a quick second shot using a powerbelt. I guess his gun shot SW's and PB's with similar grouping.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Forget the 2nd shot, you never need it. Your a one shot deer hunter and that is it. Like bow hunting only further and more accurate. As for loading get some Harvester Crushed Rib sabots here:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00072H15045BR

if you want to shoot and excellent bullet in the Omega try a 300g Nosler Partition HG bullet:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0011545350

use those for hunting. For plinking use Hornady XTP 300g:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000345235

Another good hunting bullet that is inexpensive is the Speer Gold Dot:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000213974

If you just gotta shoot PBs (your into loading easy), shoot them at 70 or 80g of 777 and use a 348g bullet, broadside rib shots only.


If your gonna take tough shot thru bone use either a Nosler Partitionor a Barnes MZ or TMZ or XPB or a Speer Gold Dot or a bonded TC Shockwave. You gotta experiment a bit to get the right bullet, load and sabot combination that works in your gun.The Crushed Rib with Nosler Partition HG works in the following guns:
Knight Disc Origonal (100g of 777 loose)
Knight Disc Extreme (100 of 777 loose)
TC Omega (100g 777)
TC Hawken FlintLock (80g of fff Goex)
Chap Gleason

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Gleason, thats great info. This hunting season I would like to keep it simple with triple-7 pellets andeventually experiment with loose. I heard about the crushed ribbed sabots and I will definitely try those. BTW, what kind of bullets come with shockwaves, Hornady XTP's?

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Shockwave is the brand name of a TC bullet made by Hornady. Hornady calls it the SST. They are like an XTP, but have a more aerodynamic head so it shoot further, the ballistic coefficient of the 300g SW is like .25. They penetrate well and many folks use them cause they are accurate as heck, I shot this 5 shot group in my Savage 10ML, with the SW:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg

I am not shooting SW, but I do consider it an excellent bullet. I like the bonded better than the unbonded, but for deer either will work. Chap Gleason

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Dominick, The sabot fitting right is very important to accuracy, and safty, to loose and it woll not only be inaccurate but can move up the barrel and create a barrel obstruction, the MMP12 and the MMP HPH 12 usually fit over size barrels like on the Knight and the White the MMP HPH 24is made to fit .451 and .452 in a .500 barrel and usally fits TC barrelthough I often us a crush ribuntill they are broke in [ first 100 to 200 shots].
I keep several different sabot available and when I purchase a new gun I take out the breach plug scrub and brush the barrel real good [ In case there are any burrs] andpush different combinations through, a tighter fit than most people like is what has always shot good groups for me; but don't get me wrong because if they are totight to load smooth then they are not going to shoot good they have to be just on the tight side of a happy medium; the exception to this is conicals like the Real bullets, Sabor Tooth, power belt and maxie ball They load and shoot different and some people are stuck with them because of the laws. Some people try to say that the TC inlines wont shoot them but I experimented with them for a while and I dont knpw why they say that I have quite a few TC gun several being inlines and I have no problem getting them to shoot 3 or 4 different conicals each, so I think that likly just a rumor the compitition started. Lee

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Don't forget about the Barnes bullets all three are great, I currently shoot the Spitfire because I read somewhere (chuckhawks site I think) that they are slightly smaller and easier to load in the tight bored Omega/Encore. They are still plenty tuff to load (I personally can't tell that they are any easier to load-I usually look like this while loading [:@]) but shoot great.;)

Some guys like 300 grainers and others 250 grainers, I myself am a 250 man for deer. My spitfires I think are 245gr. with a BC of .203

I started out with shockwaves and still shoot them at the range, they group really well in my gun. But I think if I were to buy some for hunting I would get the bonded ones (blue tip). Shot a doe with a regular SW there was an exit but not a big one and the wound channel was littered with fragments, it did the job but I prefer a bullet that will hold together.

I have no experience with the Speer GDHP but have seen some impressive pics of recovered bullets and alot a people on here seem to really like them.

Here is a buck I took year before last with a Barnes Spitfire 245 (didn't sqeeze the trigger last year)

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Nice buck Nole! I guess the fun to muzzleloading is in the experimentation. Thanks for all the info.

Gleason, are you shooting smokeless in the Savage. I would buy that gun in a heartbeat if smokeless powder was legal where I hunt.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Thanks Dom, with Muzzleloading the experimentation never seems to end.....got try me some of them 'crush rib' sabots I assume you can't use them with boattails like the Spitfire and TMZ...hmm....think I've still got some Expanders laying around here somewhere.....

BTW..every once in a while your lucky enough to spend your hard earned money on something that exceeds your expectations and later think 'I'm really glad I bought that, that was money well spent' My Omega was one of those.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Yes. I am shooting AA 5744 in my Savage. I have tried 4198 but I have ignition problems with it. I shoot a Parker Ballistic Extreme 275g with an MMP12 sabot (not supplied, they ship with the 24s and they are too loose). I agree 100% with what Lemoyne said and sabots and testing them for "just tight enough", it makes a huge difference. Chap Gleason

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I shoot a Knight DISC and love it. I bought it about 5-6 years ago and fell in love with it from the first shot. The gun store I work at has a few frequent visitors who are die hard BP shooters and a few shoot traditional BP rifles as well as inlines. T/C sems to be VERY popular. As a matter of fact I sold a Triumph today and I like how it feels in hand. But I am really interested in the CVA Electra and it is on my Christmas list. UNLESS the Knight KP1 arrives soon.
My knight likes the heavier bullets over 100g of Pyrodex if its any consolation.
Oh, my Knight has 2 safety's. One standard safety switch and one on the rear of the bolt. essentially the bolt safety prevents the primer from being struck if the hammer falls. It backs out the firing pin. That may not be a technically accurate description, but thats pretty much what happens.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I believe Barnes are great bullets. I intend to shoot a Barnes next year IF IT WILL FLY in my SAVAGE either the Spitfire MZ 300g, the 45-70 Triple shock or the 275g XPB .452 pistol bullet. My first choice is the .45-70 triple shock, since it has a highter ballistic coefficient and available in 300g, which is my choice for deer (big deer-anything will kill a small deer). I have tried the TMZ and the Knight Untimate Slam, which is an Xbullet. Both were not that accurate in my gun. I may have to shoot a different sabot to get the good groups. That is a Feb, March and April thing. Chap Gleason

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

hey Chap,the Spitfires might fit a little loose in that Savage, can you use the MMP12 with them? I would mind trying out some of those Parkers myself, the ballistics gel results on that other site were impressive.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

That is what I am going to try, a Spitfire MZ 285g with the MMP12 sabot, since I believe they are flat based on the bottom. I like the Parkers, but have now heard some fragmentation issues with them on bone hits, that is why I want to go to a Barnes, stronger bullet with better penetration capability. They retain 100% of weight on must shots. Beautiful buck.

As a note several of the people over on Doug's Savage Board shoot Barnes TMZ 290g and they get them a hair bigger by taking a couple of files and rolling the bullet in it. It roughs it up a bit and makes it .001 bigger in the sabot and that gives it the grip to the sabot to be more accurate. I prefer not to do that, but it might come to that, after I do some testing.
Chap

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Chap, You could always shoot em out of your Omega ;)

Hey Dom, did you ever decide?

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

Nole, I think I'm leaning towards the stainless/laminated Omega, cost is similar to the triumph. The Omega shoulder's better and its stainless. Everyone I talked to at the range and in the gun shops loves them and I never heard complaints about tough loading issues except here and other forums. I know its an issue but it seems to exist with all T/C's. Maybe thats why they are tack drivers.How is yours to load. I was thinking about using JB's paste to smooth out the bore when I get it. Its a sabot gun and for now I'll stick with shockwaves and pellets of triple 7. Looking forward to experimenting with cheaper ammo and working up a load using loose powder, but that will be after hunting season.

RE: New Muzzleloader
 

I like your thinking and don't think you'll be disappointed.

The T/C's do have a tighter bore. And I agreewith the tightness/accuracy theory.I think a really tight bullet resists be moved by the hot 209 primer before the powder ignites.
It really isn't that bad, to me it isn't much worse than loading a sabot in either of my other two (Rem ML700 & T/C Hawken) at least not enough make me want to shoot something else. I couldn't tell much difference in the SW and Spitfire as far as loading diffficulty. Tried an expander and it was kind of tuff. Thinking about trying some crush rib sabots with Expanders, if they really load easy they would be great for a quick second load, I haven't ever had the oppurtunity but have heard several stories where something that could be loaded fast would be handy.

Onetip if you get the laminate stock. (I did this to both my and my fathers)Check to see if the barrel is floated in front of the forward stock screw. Both mine and my dads were not due to the stock finish. A little light sandpaper work (maybe a minutes worth) and resealed with some light wood finish and the barrels were floated. Didn'tremove any wood just worked down the finish a little (couple of thick spots). I'm told this does alot towards making MOA or even sub-MOA possible; assuming your shooting the right load.