First shot on a clean barrel
11-17-2007, 11:18 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
IMO it depends on what type of rifle, and what type of projectile you are using. It also depends on what degree of accuracy you need. In my Knight Long Range Hunter I am only concerned about the first shot from a clean barrel. I am concerned with pinpoint accuracy out to 200 yards. I have never seen any one with pinpoint accuracy out to 200 yards with a dirty barrel. But as Cayugad said, if your concern is fifty yard minute of deer accuracy with a roundball or large conical, then pinpoint accuracy is not your major concern.
IMO you should determine your needs first. Then go from there.
I also believe thatthe first shot isyour most dependable shot, as far as gun function is concerned. I have seen a lot of second shot misfires in myshooting days.
Very few people get second shot opportunities with a ML. I always thoroughly clean my barrel after every shot with my Knight. But I shoot the devil out of my Lyman flintlock, with just a quick patch or two after every three or four shots. Tom.
IMO you should determine your needs first. Then go from there.
I also believe thatthe first shot isyour most dependable shot, as far as gun function is concerned. I have seen a lot of second shot misfires in myshooting days.
Very few people get second shot opportunities with a ML. I always thoroughly clean my barrel after every shot with my Knight. But I shoot the devil out of my Lyman flintlock, with just a quick patch or two after every three or four shots. Tom.
11-18-2007, 04:07 AM
#12
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 141
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Some people do a great deal of target shooting and don't want the bother of swabbing between shots so their rifles are sighted in on a fouled barrel. My rifles (all flintlocks) are for hunting deer and they are sighted in on a clean barrel. My barrels are put away with an oiled bore. Before hunting with them they are washed out with dawn dish soap and warm water and dried with cleaning patches. I let them sit for at least an hour before they are loaded.
My loads are worked up in three shot groups with the sighting in on the first shot from a clean barrel. I will take several sessions to test that the bull is hit from a clean barrel every time. Do your sighting in on windless days (Mornings around here are windless for the most part). I take the time to clean the barrel between loadings for the second and third shots and clean until the patch comes out completely clean. I have no problem shooting 2" groups with open sights on windless mornings at 100 yards. Every rifle I have shows that the first shot from a clean barrel will hit to the same spot consistantly and the second/third shots on a swabbed clean barrel will be very close to the first. I have found that fast reloads are not an issue for me no matter what type of firearm I am using. Put the first where it belongs within it's power range and you will make meat. Make a good shot and watch/listen to your deers reaction. Most times you will see or hear it go down. Take your time cleaning the bore and load up and then follow up. You won't need a second shot 99% of the time.
It amazes me that people always say that their first shot from a clean barrel always hits left or right or high or whatever; use that to your advantage as muzzleloading is for the most part a one shot deal. Clean your barrel well after the first shot in the attempt to duplicate the clean bore condition. I use real black powder and have no experience with the subs but I doubt the method would not work equally as well with it.
I do the same thing with my centerfires (no cleaning between shots of course). Acouple of trips to my range to tweek thescope until that first shot is dead nuts where I want itand the second/third are within an inch or so and it's done. I make sure I buy several boxes of the same lot of ammo once it's sighted in. I am looking for pinpoint accuracy from the first shot. In my revolvers I find my most accurate cylinder and mark it; and always use it for my first shot when hunting.
My loads are worked up in three shot groups with the sighting in on the first shot from a clean barrel. I will take several sessions to test that the bull is hit from a clean barrel every time. Do your sighting in on windless days (Mornings around here are windless for the most part). I take the time to clean the barrel between loadings for the second and third shots and clean until the patch comes out completely clean. I have no problem shooting 2" groups with open sights on windless mornings at 100 yards. Every rifle I have shows that the first shot from a clean barrel will hit to the same spot consistantly and the second/third shots on a swabbed clean barrel will be very close to the first. I have found that fast reloads are not an issue for me no matter what type of firearm I am using. Put the first where it belongs within it's power range and you will make meat. Make a good shot and watch/listen to your deers reaction. Most times you will see or hear it go down. Take your time cleaning the bore and load up and then follow up. You won't need a second shot 99% of the time.
It amazes me that people always say that their first shot from a clean barrel always hits left or right or high or whatever; use that to your advantage as muzzleloading is for the most part a one shot deal. Clean your barrel well after the first shot in the attempt to duplicate the clean bore condition. I use real black powder and have no experience with the subs but I doubt the method would not work equally as well with it.
I do the same thing with my centerfires (no cleaning between shots of course). Acouple of trips to my range to tweek thescope until that first shot is dead nuts where I want itand the second/third are within an inch or so and it's done. I make sure I buy several boxes of the same lot of ammo once it's sighted in. I am looking for pinpoint accuracy from the first shot. In my revolvers I find my most accurate cylinder and mark it; and always use it for my first shot when hunting.
11-18-2007, 09:43 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Union City, Michigan
Posts: 231
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
Thanks for the input, I suspect with enough time and shooting I would figure it out but you guys advice would save me some time. I have an Omega w 4-12 swift scope. A lot of my hunting is over CRP fields with possible long shots.
Here are my goals.
Shoot 150yd maybe to 200 with first shot. I am not going to shoot unless I can shoot a 4-inch group at my max range. The bullets I am playing with are Knight Ultimate Slam Series 250 grain boat tail all copper and PR bullet 175 dead center. I am shooting 100 gr T7. A
Any other thoughts appreciated.
11-18-2007, 10:53 AM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Utah
Posts: 252
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I am no expert , but what i do is clean my gun spotless between shots , so i am always shooting a clean barrel .
I run two wet and two dry patches ( both sides ) down maybarrel after each shot. The last wet and dry patchare spotless .
This had worked great with both my Traditions pursuit pro and my new Encore .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/rgkempton/Muzzle%20loaders/DSCN0019-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/rgkempton/Muzzle%20loaders/4shot65yrds.jpg
I run two wet and two dry patches ( both sides ) down maybarrel after each shot. The last wet and dry patchare spotless .
This had worked great with both my Traditions pursuit pro and my new Encore .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/rgkempton/Muzzle%20loaders/DSCN0019-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/rgkempton/Muzzle%20loaders/4shot65yrds.jpg
11-18-2007, 11:59 AM
#15
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hyde Park, Utah
Posts: 252
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
ORIGINAL: Mossie
It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Some people do a great deal of target shooting and don't want the bother of swabbing between shots so their rifles are sighted in on a fouled barrel. My rifles (all flintlocks) are for hunting deer and they are sighted in on a clean barrel. My barrels are put away with an oiled bore. Before hunting with them they are washed out with dawn dish soap and warm water and dried with cleaning patches. I let them sit for at least an hour before they are loaded.
My loads are worked up in three shot groups with the sighting in on the first shot from a clean barrel. I will take several sessions to test that the bull is hit from a clean barrel every time. Do your sighting in on windless days (Mornings around here are windless for the most part). I take the time to clean the barrel between loadings for the second and third shots and clean until the patch comes out completely clean. I have no problem shooting 2" groups with open sights on windless mornings at 100 yards. Every rifle I have shows that the first shot from a clean barrel will hit to the same spot consistantly and the second/third shots on a swabbed clean barrel will be very close to the first. I have found that fast reloads are not an issue for me no matter what type of firearm I am using. Put the first where it belongs within it's power range and you will make meat. Make a good shot and watch/listen to your deers reaction. Most times you will see or hear it go down. Take your time cleaning the bore and load up and then follow up. You won't need a second shot 99% of the time.
It amazes me that people always say that their first shot from a clean barrel always hits left or right or high or whatever; use that to your advantage as muzzleloading is for the most part a one shot deal. Clean your barrel well after the first shot in the attempt to duplicate the clean bore condition. I use real black powder and have no experience with the subs but I doubt the method would not work equally as well with it.
I do the same thing with my centerfires (no cleaning between shots of course). Acouple of trips to my range to tweek thescope until that first shot is dead nuts where I want itand the second/third are within an inch or so and it's done. I make sure I buy several boxes of the same lot of ammo once it's sighted in. I am looking for pinpoint accuracy from the first shot. In my revolvers I find my most accurate cylinder and mark it; and always use it for my first shot when hunting.
It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. Some people do a great deal of target shooting and don't want the bother of swabbing between shots so their rifles are sighted in on a fouled barrel. My rifles (all flintlocks) are for hunting deer and they are sighted in on a clean barrel. My barrels are put away with an oiled bore. Before hunting with them they are washed out with dawn dish soap and warm water and dried with cleaning patches. I let them sit for at least an hour before they are loaded.
My loads are worked up in three shot groups with the sighting in on the first shot from a clean barrel. I will take several sessions to test that the bull is hit from a clean barrel every time. Do your sighting in on windless days (Mornings around here are windless for the most part). I take the time to clean the barrel between loadings for the second and third shots and clean until the patch comes out completely clean. I have no problem shooting 2" groups with open sights on windless mornings at 100 yards. Every rifle I have shows that the first shot from a clean barrel will hit to the same spot consistantly and the second/third shots on a swabbed clean barrel will be very close to the first. I have found that fast reloads are not an issue for me no matter what type of firearm I am using. Put the first where it belongs within it's power range and you will make meat. Make a good shot and watch/listen to your deers reaction. Most times you will see or hear it go down. Take your time cleaning the bore and load up and then follow up. You won't need a second shot 99% of the time.
It amazes me that people always say that their first shot from a clean barrel always hits left or right or high or whatever; use that to your advantage as muzzleloading is for the most part a one shot deal. Clean your barrel well after the first shot in the attempt to duplicate the clean bore condition. I use real black powder and have no experience with the subs but I doubt the method would not work equally as well with it.
I do the same thing with my centerfires (no cleaning between shots of course). Acouple of trips to my range to tweek thescope until that first shot is dead nuts where I want itand the second/third are within an inch or so and it's done. I make sure I buy several boxes of the same lot of ammo once it's sighted in. I am looking for pinpoint accuracy from the first shot. In my revolvers I find my most accurate cylinder and mark it; and always use it for my first shot when hunting.
12-06-2007, 01:13 PM
#16
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 169
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
All cold bore shoots always impact differently in ML and centerfire rifles. Keep the barrel wiped free of any lubricant before hunting and since we are talking ML just keep a running log of your cold bore shots and note the impact of each cold bore shoot and you can either sight the rifle to the correct point of impact you want, or aim a little low. Most of the time you only get one shot so I personally adjust the point of impact with my scope for a clean barrel cold bore shot. Beside cold bore and clean barrel there are other things that will effect bullet tragectory, such as temperature and humidity. Then again I wouldn't about those things. I would shoot my muzzle loader close to the hunting season to ensure the zero is correct and then just hunt and have fun.
Thank a soldier for your freedom.
Thank a soldier for your freedom.
12-06-2007, 04:04 PM
#18
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 141
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
My rifles are always stored with an oiled bore and are refreshed with an oiled patch every couple of months. Every rifle I own is sighted in on a cold and clean barrel and stays that way forever; I have a couple of centerfires that were sighted in 20 years ago and still knock the bullseye out without any adjustment in 20 years.
My flintlocks are stored oiled as well; I just make sure it's completely dry before I oil them. My flintlocks are cleaned white after every shot when hunting unless for some reason I would need to load it very fast for a follow up shot. That has never happened; rapid follow up shots and muzzleloaders don't mix. When I clean my flintlocks I do so with warm (not hot) water and a little dish soap in a 5 gal. bucket, dump the bucket, add some clean warm water and pump some more patches and dry with some more patches. Next I run a few patches with denatured alcohol down the bore and a dry patch which should come out completely white. Now stand it on the muzzle end for at least a couple of hours so you are sure it is completely dry and run a cleanoiled patch through the bore.
When your ready to hunt run a fewpatches with the denatured alcoholdown thebore; next pour a little down the bore and let it soak in for a few seconds; turn it muzzle down to drain out and then runa couple dry patches; run a dry patch down the bore and leave it on the jag and ramrod and stand it in the cornermuzzle down on the ramrod for a few min. or so. Your barrel is now clean as a whistle and oil free; the denatured alcohol will dryand clean clear into the pores of the steel.
Do not load a charge until you get to where you want to hunt and therifle has adjusted for the temperature of the day. Clean, dry and deadly accurate first shots are now yours; rapid follow up shots seldom require pinpoint accuracy but first shots most always do.
My flintlocks are stored oiled as well; I just make sure it's completely dry before I oil them. My flintlocks are cleaned white after every shot when hunting unless for some reason I would need to load it very fast for a follow up shot. That has never happened; rapid follow up shots and muzzleloaders don't mix. When I clean my flintlocks I do so with warm (not hot) water and a little dish soap in a 5 gal. bucket, dump the bucket, add some clean warm water and pump some more patches and dry with some more patches. Next I run a few patches with denatured alcohol down the bore and a dry patch which should come out completely white. Now stand it on the muzzle end for at least a couple of hours so you are sure it is completely dry and run a cleanoiled patch through the bore.
When your ready to hunt run a fewpatches with the denatured alcoholdown thebore; next pour a little down the bore and let it soak in for a few seconds; turn it muzzle down to drain out and then runa couple dry patches; run a dry patch down the bore and leave it on the jag and ramrod and stand it in the cornermuzzle down on the ramrod for a few min. or so. Your barrel is now clean as a whistle and oil free; the denatured alcohol will dryand clean clear into the pores of the steel.
Do not load a charge until you get to where you want to hunt and therifle has adjusted for the temperature of the day. Clean, dry and deadly accurate first shots are now yours; rapid follow up shots seldom require pinpoint accuracy but first shots most always do.
12-06-2007, 04:15 PM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
I target shoot and hunt with a clean bore, always have and always will.
I obtain my best overall POI grouping from a clean bore for every shot. That's what I sight in and hunt hunt with.
Some folks like to fire a squib shot or primers to "pre-foul" the bore. If that works for them I certainly don't wish to change anyone's religion.
For inlines, loadingsabot projectileson a dirty bore is also more difficult loading.
M2C,
Tahquamenon
I obtain my best overall POI grouping from a clean bore for every shot. That's what I sight in and hunt hunt with.
Some folks like to fire a squib shot or primers to "pre-foul" the bore. If that works for them I certainly don't wish to change anyone's religion.
For inlines, loadingsabot projectileson a dirty bore is also more difficult loading.
M2C,
Tahquamenon
12-06-2007, 06:54 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: First shot on a clean barrel
bowbender6, I use the 200 gr Shock Wave [50 cal sabot 40cal bullet] with 110 gr 777 sighted 3 inch high at 100 it hits 4 inches low at 200 yds. the next closest thing to it is the 200gr 40cal XTP in the same sabot. Lee
PS For some reason it seems not only faster and flater but also more accurate in my Omega and my Triumph.
PS For some reason it seems not only faster and flater but also more accurate in my Omega and my Triumph.