curing barrel fouling
 

a month ago i bought a new TC triumph,i have heard lots of guys shooting omega's and encores having trouble with a crud ring forming near the breech plug in these guns. after only 2-3 shots my triumph was all but impossible to load. after talking to TC they just told me to clean it after every shot. i have a friend with a 2 yr old omega that was having the same trouble . well i found a product called ULTRA BORE COAT. i have treated both barrels with UBC almost totally elimated any barrel fouling. after firing 20 rounds i can clean the barrel with one patch. this stuff is so slick ,it loads easier and cleans easier. it is a ceramic coating .check it out

http://www.ultracoatingsinc.com/products.html

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

I've read of others using this product also. The claims they make are very impressive. But for the cost of the product they better be. I will be watching for those that use this. I really do not have all that major a problem with crud ring, so I will just keep swabbing instead.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

actually i was at the point that i was going to sell my gun,so 50.00 for a UBC KIT was a cheap fix, and one kit will do 2 muzzleloaders.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

Did you ever think of changing to a cleaner burning powder like APP, Pinnacle, or Shockey Gold?

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

Been following these reports as well and think it mightbe a real plus for sabot shooters - but it is somewhat expensive. Glad Doug and crew were able to solve the dripper problem. :D

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

yes ,i tried everything i could find in sabots ,powder and primers. TC should be paying to fix these ML'S they seem to the biggest problem with crud rings . from what i'm hearing they may offer UBC with there ml's next year. other brands don't have near the problems with sabots.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

"other brands don't have near the problems with sabots"

I don't know how anyone could substantiate that claim. Hodgdon would probably like for you to believe that but I seriously doubt any real study has been made. The fact is, there are a LOT of TC muzzleloaders in use. In my limited experience, the crud ring is not at all brand dependent.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

Where does that UBC stuff come from?? One should NOT have to clean a bore after every shot, especially when using one of the substitute powders! I can shoot three to five shots w/o cleaning, when using real black powder and patched round balls(this depends on the amount-the more powder, the fewer shots!). I can shoot indefinitely when using Pyrodex.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

srwshooter

But I have a few TC's and do not have a problem at all with the crud ring or excessive fouling and T7 is all that I shoot - either 100 or 110 grains - ignited with 209's, 25acp, and caps...

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

"In my limited experience, the crud ring is not at all brand dependent."

That is my experience as well. My CVA guns and my Encore develop terrible crud rings with 777. Lots of my friends and acquaintances have this problem withevery brand of M/L out there. The crud ring problem can be somewhat controlled ifevery bit of lubricant is removed from the bore before firing.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=145&osCsid=afb863 b3cb940be116ee8039d9fc013f you can order it there. It's made by Fit4Duty.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

It isn't the guns fault that the powder fouls inside the barrel and makes loading difficult. Blame the powder, blame the tight sabots, the primers, but not the gun.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

rem 700,thats where you are wrong,it is the guns fault and TC has admited to me and others that gun design is causeing the problem but they are still not willing to change there breechplug design to fix it. the crud rings(FOULING JUST IN THE FIRST 1-1 1/2 WHERE THE BACK OF THE SABOT SETS)has become worse as the gun manufactors have tightened up there actions,the so called sealed breech. knight has had some problems ,but not near as much. doug,the seller of UBC says TC has been testing UBC and has found that it really helps the problem and may offer it as a option with there ml's next year. doug's company is the same company that applies the weathershield on the new triumph so they are working close with TC.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

Everytime I read these fouling problem posts it makes me feel even better about my 10ML-II. I use either Vihnt N-110 or AA XMR-5744 and never worry about fouling, crud rings, swabbing between shots, or scrubbing to keep my rifle in one piece and shooting straight. I clean the bore every 50 shots and take out and clean the breech plug and vent-liner every 100. I have no regrets about switching to smokeless powder, which despite the complaining from the so-called "traditionalists" is the first TRUE black powder substitute, entering the commercial scene in 1884 (remember that cartridges like the .45 Colt and .45-70 Gov't were originally black powder cartridges that transitioned to smokeless when handloader SUBSTITUTED smokeless powder for black).

You could always try using real 2F black powder. It doesn't form a crud RING, it forms a uniform layer of crud all the way down the bore, but at least it doesn't take two men and a boy to scrub it out between shots.

Oh, and I do blame the powder, because T7 is the only powder that does it. It might not do it in some rifles, but it does it in most. I had a Knight DISC (original and later converted to a DISC Extreme) before I got my Savage that formed a terrible crud ring with T7. I also have a Traditions Buckhunter inline with a musket cap nipple and a T/C White Mountain Carbine with a #11 nipple (German caps in both) that also get crud rings with T7.

I've never quite understood why some people will try half a dozen pseudo-smokeless "black powder substitutes" that all have many of the same problems of BP itself (i.e. fouling, hygroscopic, corrosive, etc...) and a few uniques problems of their own (crud rings) in an vain effort to acheve smokeless-like performance, but vehemently refuse to even consider trying a Savage 10ML-II with actual smokeless powder. With 45gr of N-110 I can push a 300gr .45cal sabot to an honest 2300fps with less than 1/3 the powder of the needed 150 grains of T7 (read less recoil and MUCH cheaper) and can shoot all day without ever using a swab, patch or brush. Tomorrow (hopefully) I'm going to work up a light shooting load with apx 35gr of XMR-5744 under a 240gr XTP at apx 1500fps, and once I get it worked up and sighted in the way I want it, I will not clean the rifle until after deer season.

Don't be afraid of smokeless muzzleloading. If it's legal in your state give it a try, I can almost guarantee you won't go back.

Mike

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

Triple seven is not the only powder to create the crud ring. My son's stainless Apex gets a crud ring (not quite as bad as 777) using Pyro P after only one shot. We have to use a wet, not damp, patch to swab between shots using that powder otherwise the range rod gets stuck near the BP. I've also had crud rings in various guns using Black Mag 3. I never have determined the exact reason some of my guns have CR problems and others don't but my guess is, as stated before, it comes down at least partially to BP design.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

my triumph was forming the same crud ring with reg pyrodex ,,777,and shockey's gold.and it didnt seem to matter which primer. i shot hornady,knight,powerbelts and barnes ,they all did it.

and my friends omega was worse then my triumph.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

Well I have had more than my share of crud ring,Now I am very careful on how I clean the original metal preseveritive out of a new gun, I believe that if it is burned into the pores of the metal its part of the problem[I don't know what they are using now] and find that if you get it completely and truly clean of all oil and metal preseveritive then polish with jewelers rouge it not only helps the crud ring big time but makes loading and cleaning easier to. Lee

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

When I did a shooting experiment with progressive 5 grain increment loads of T-7 FFFG in my Mustang, one thing I noticed was a greater tendency for a crud ring at lower powder charges, and less crud at higher charges.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

I shoot T7 in my sidelocks.I use patched round balls.Patches are lubed with hoppes #9 plus.I shoot 50 plus times at the range without wiping between shoots or cleaning until the next day sometimes.I haven't experianced a crud ring.I do the same with real blackpowder in my flintlock but I clean it when I get home before I do anything else.

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

I do the same thing with PRB, shoot all day without swabbing. But then again, the patch around the ball is swabbing every time I load so maybe I am swabbing every shot.

Not every gun gets a crud ring. I have one inline that has never had a problem with the 777, or any other powder, crud ring. Both of my kids inlines have issues with it no matter what primer I use and one of them has issues with it with more than just 777. One of my sidelocks also has CR issues even using #11 caps with 777. Now that I said that, I guess the powder may also be a contributing factor along with the gun design. In fact I'm sure there are multiple contributing factors as have been postulated in the above posts.

I guess we are all right. :D

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

sidelocks do not have a sealed breech ,you may never see a crud ring in one .

RE: curing barrel fouling
 

I have used T-7 in my T/C NewEnglander and actually do get a crud ring with conicals. Not bad, but I can feel it when I swab between shots.
BTW - The T-7 shoots well and is decent on accuracy out of the sidelock, but there is an occasional hang-fire.