Accuracy Problems again
 

If you guys would PLEASE go back to the post entitled "Accuracy Problems" (july) and read the contents. I had my CVA Optima Pro shooting like a dream. Our season opens this Saturday so I decided to go to the range one more time to make sure that everything is still OK. I shot a few caps through it. Loaded her up, good rest, everything on go. I sqeezed the trigger and at the drop of the hammer, the primer went off but the charge didn't go off immediately. The target is a 14" x 18" target. NEVER TOUCHED IT[:@] Is this a hang fire? Anyhow, I let it cool and tried again. 6 inches high and 8 inches left. Shot #3 was 3 inches low and 6 inched left. The rest is history. The more I shot the worse it got. Now, I'm a reasonable man but what the???????. Somebody's gonna get a good gun REAL cheap. I've checked the scope and mounts ect, but this continues to be a problem for me and I wind up buying the newer and better gun that I'm sure that I don't need. How could it have shot soo well in july and this bad in Oct with NO change in bullet, sabbot, powder and primer. PLEASE HELP!!!

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Sounds like you are leaving some lube in the bore or the plug is gummed up. Be sure to check both and make sure both are bone dry and clear before loading. Start again from there and see what happens. If you still can't get a group (and you are sure of the powder), I would remove the scope andtry the irons.

Your problem accuracy is about like the BEST accuracy I could get from the one I had. Terrible! But it was a very early production model.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

I have that gun and found the bore on CVA is undersized afew-100 thousands. Were your sabots hard to load-did you have to really push them down? I switched to the MMP HPH24 and found my groups tightened up. I'm afraid though with a CVA you might not get the accuracy you are hoping for. I did however kill 2 very nice eight points both years I carried it. Good Luck

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Here's a group from July, nothing has changed as far as the sabbots, bullet, powder charge not the primer.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Man Bigtimer, I feel for you. Evidentially you've never read Semisane Ten Laws.;)

On a serious note, it sure sounds like a scope problem. With the groups you were getting with that load I just don't see how you could be getting such wide variance now with a 12+" group. Temperature and loading technique differences may account for an inch or two, or three - but nothing like that. Got to be either a sight problem or serious damage to the muzzle.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

If the rifle has iron sights, pull the scope and try that load at 50 yards with out the scope. If it shoots a 2" group at that distance, then you might suspect the scope is no good. Or throw another scope on it and see if that makes a difference. Otherwise you are going to have to rework all the steps of what you do to the rifle and where you might have changed something.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Cayugad, you are right about the scope!! I had a scope on my inline, and couldn't get it to zero. Sent it back to the manufacturer, and they said it was a bad scope, replacing it at no charge..............

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Was the gun brand new when you were getting these groups? With the first couple hundred shots, the rifles taste for load can change quite a bit. It's not uncommon, but less severe, with centerfire rifles after a 'break-in' period.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

It's 2 years old. I wouldn't think that would make a 12" POI difference.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Hey bigtimer, I did as you asked and went back to your July post and re-read it in its entirety.

Here's what I found:

In your first range session you were having problems getting powerbelts on target, made some scope adjustments and got one shot in the bull, but didn't verify that shot right awaywith another as far as I could tell. A little later you shot again (two shots?) that were no where near the bull.

Second range session, this timewith Noslers, youstarted to get acceptable groups but wanted to do some tweakingwhen the session was called on account of rain. I couldn't tell how many shots or groupswere fired.

Third range session, again with Noslers, you gota real nice 3-shot group. Don't know how many other groups were shot or if you got other groups close to that great one.

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, but if that third range session consisted of one 3-shot group it could have been a fluke. Such things happen. On the other hand, if you had two or three pretty good groups at that last session I go back to my "scope problem" theory. A scope problem could even explain the difficulty you had getting powerbelts to group in your first session.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

I don't mean to be a smart ass but that sounds like a common scenario with the CVA's.

It could be the scope but if it ain't that I would sell the gun while you still can.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Or your powder. Triple 7 as i found out is very odd from week to week. Thats why i will no ,longer use it in my rifles. Shame too, my .45 shot great with it on a new can.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

I believe that Sabotloader found my problem. After a careful disassembly of my gun, I found something of great concern. There's no one to blame my rifles condition but myself, but on our last outing, my son asked if he could help with the clean up and I agreed. When I removed my breech plug this evening while talking to Sabotloader on the phone, I was amazed at what I found. A huge build up of breech plug grease was caked up at the muzzle end of the plug and after it's removal, the barrel was about 1/5th covered by what appeared to be hardened or crystalized grease. Upon further inspection with a good light, I found that the grooves in the first 3 inches of the barrel beyond the breech plug threads were not visable. Sabotloader said that it was probably plastic and breech plug grease. Anyhow, I spent the last 2 hours cleaning the heck out of it, pouring boiling water down the barrel and just a good thourough cleaning. I had never poured boiling water down the barrel but cannot believe how shiney the barrel is now. I'm sure that this was the culprit and appreciate you guys for helping me. I also took the scope off for the boiling and to check and make sure that everything was tight and it was. I'm gonna shoot her again tomorrow and if it doesn't shoot well, I'll try another scope. It has a new Nikon on it now but I have a spare redfield illuminater in the gun safe. Ya'll cross your fingers and toes.;)

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. :D

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

:D glad you may have found the problem. Take your time cleaning, theres no rush to get things done faster. Stories like this, about finding all kinds of crud, scare me and i dont like seeing these new " 5 minute, easy to clean rifles" coming out. Shooter must not only learn how to find and work up loads, but must also learn how to slow down, take care in cleaning the rifle for the next shooting session.
Let us all know.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

I can understand that Rodney, eh - Underclocked. Looks like you nailed it on the first reply.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Underclocked, you were correct. I'm going to shoot again tommorrow and if it still shoots poorly, I'll put the iron sights back on it and give that a try. Oh, and you do have my respect... Thank you, Sir;)

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

OK, I'll stop pooching my lips out. ;) :D

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

YES, that was a hang-fire. There was something in the flash channel that impeded the ignition of your first charge. Of course, it missed!! Because your rifle was way off target by the time it went bang! I suspect you may have flinched a little anticipating the recoil, which didn't come when you expected it.

As for the poor shooting afterward, I am not use or the cause, but since the rifle worked well previously, I believe it is your fault, and not the gun's, that the grouping was so poor. Not knowing any better, I suspect there my have been a build-up of Bore Butter or some ohersimilar lubricant or bullet grease in the bore, possibly from previous shooting of bullets with that stuff on them, or you didn't do a good job of getting the lube and/or fouling out of the bore, thebreechblock flash-channel, and nipple the last time you cleaned the gun.

I recommend a thorough bore cleaning using boiling water, and a good scrubbing of the breechblock, flashchannel, and nipple using hot, soapy water. Soak these parts, then scrub them until they shine. Now dry everytyhing off, and wipe them down with Birchwood-Casey SHEATH (Barrier).

The next time you go to the range, when you pop your caps to clear the flash channel & nipple, hold the muzzle down near a blade of grass or a leaf on the ground. The cap gases should make the grass move or blow the leaf an few inches. If this does NOT happen, then your flash channel is NOT clear, and you need to take the breechblock out and clear the flash chgannel. (BUT, if you cleaned and preserved your gun according to my instructions above, the systyem will be clear!!)

Now load up and shoot, using the load that proved good previously. MAKE SURE YOU ARE USING FRESH POWDER!! Some substitutes can go bad pretty fast if stored in a humid environment. This does not make for consistent shooting!

I suppose it is nevcessary to use some kind of anti-seize grease on those breech plugs. I have a couple of inlines, but most of my ML don't have removable breech plugs, so I am not sure. But if it is necessary, just put a ittle dab of the stuff on the threads, at least 1/4" back from the front face of the plug!

Watch out for flinching!

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

While the scope can be the major problem, somehow I believe it is something else-an unclean gun. What gave me the first clue?? The dad-burn mn hangfire, that's what! Hangfires don't happen with clean flash channels!

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

It was embarrassing but I learned how to properly clean my ML. It's shooting great groups again. Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate all of the suggestions. Sorry, forgot how to resize and post pics.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Here is his 100 yard target that he shot today.... Sure looks like you have it figured out... Good hunting next week...

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

I am glad to see that all is well with the world. That looks like it will get the job done just fine.

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Don't 'ya just love it when a plan comes together!

RE: Accuracy Problems again
 

Once again, thank you guys so much for the help. I couldn't have done it without the experience of you guys.