Encore Quality??
 

First I have an encore and love it.
Was at the bait shop yesterday and the owner was telling me that a while back a guy bought an Encore 209x50,went out to shoot it and it wouldn't fire.brought it back and found out it didn't have a fireing pin in it.Checked others to get a firing pin and none of the ones he had had a firing pin in them either.T/C sent them firing pins for them and he had to get someone to install them.
Now days I guess good help is hard to find,doesn't seem like they have final inspection before they send them out.
No wonder they have a hard time answering e-mail,don't guess anyone is there.
I bet those weren't dead on out of the box????

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

That's the new &quot;ultimate safety&quot; feature, Herman. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Yep, I think T/C has sort of lost the bubble on some aspects of their QC. And, how about those 209x45 barrels?

No longer able to answer emails - I sent three emails to T/C BEFORE they made that announcement and have received no answer. Seems a good way to help silence the crowd. Of course, all you ever got before was a very slightly altered canned response from T.P. .

RE: Encore Quality??
 

No wonder I don't get any answers from them,didn't know they quit e-mailing.I guess they are getting like all the other manufactors after they get your hard earned money,to hell with you.When I grew up people would bust their ass to help you,not so now days.just go to wally world or K-mart and ask for some help,that is if you can find anyone to ask.No wonder K-mart is going under.
I have and have had other T?C muzzleloaders,have written them several times about the 209x45 being a piece of crap,they have never sugested to send it to them to see why it wouldn't shoot.They told me last year that they were experimenting with a different twist rate for it this year they can't even answer a simple question( did the twist change or not).I would just go ahead and send it to them but they would either send it back saying that there was nothing wrong with it or send a new one with the same problem.
I know one fellow that sent his back and they told him there was nothing wrong with it,He told them he didn't want it back,if they were so proud of it to hang it on their wall.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

If you send the gun back to them with a note, I bet they will make it right.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

I got my encore over a year ago and had some questions on it that I sent to T/C I recieved a part and reply within a few days. I have had good luck with them I may be the exception I am not sure but was pleased at there responce.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

[quote]
If you send the gun back to them with a note, I bet they will make it right.
I am going to wait and see if they change the twist rate first.
According to the fellow at pression bullets they sent him a protype with 1:28 twist and they told me last year that they were working on a different twist.




http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Well I packaged up my 209x45 barrel and sent it back to T/C,I included the groups I got from the 209x50,I have seen on this board and others that more guys than me was having trouble with the 45 cal,so I guess I will have to wait and see what they do about it.Will post results






http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Please do let us know. I'm looking at a deal on a blue/wood .50 caliber 209x50 with Leupold QR base and rings, <font size=1>Tasco...</font id=size1>..<font size=2>6X scope, and all the extras the guy has for the rifle for 470 delivered. Seem like a good deal to you, Herman?</font id=size2>

RE: Encore Quality??
 

sounds like a good deal to me,I gave 479 + tax when I bought mine with out scope bases and rings and any extras,I think you will really like the 50 cal.I do mine.
Haven't heard from T/C will post when I find out anything.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

ok i was in the gun store today and was lookin at the tc encore 50cal and i loved the way it felt, any problems with this one or is it only the 45cal?

&quot;smile, life could be worse.. i could be datin your daughter.&quot;

RE: Encore Quality??
 

[quote]
ok i was in the gun store today and was lookin at the tc encore 50cal and i loved the way it felt, any problems with this one or is it only the 45cal?

The 45 is the only one I had trouble getting to group at all.If you check out the pics below you can see what I liked about the 50 cal.There are several posts on this board and other boards about getting the 45 to shoot good.

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Herman, there is definite hope for your rifle. I happened to check the rifling on the replacement barrel I got from T/C quite a while back a few minutes ago. I'll be danged if it isn't 1:28&quot; twist. One of those &quot;assume&quot; things because I didn't think they had any such at the time.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Encore Quality??
 

underclocked,that sounds like a good deal,have you tried it out yet?
I am hoping they send me a 1:28 and it shoots as good as the 50 cal does,I sent them some pics of the targets shot by the 50 cal.The fellow on PB was impressed with the 1:28 twists,Mine has been gone since and I got a post card saying they received it.How long did it take to get yours back?

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Package included rifle, box, manual, rear sights, Tasco 6X World Class, Leupold QR bases and rings, Bellm over-sized hinge pin, Bellm hammer extension, some PowerBelts, partial can of Cleanshot pellets, normal accessories, T/C Encore capper, and various cleaning components. Since I had sent my last Omega to Alaska Friday and still intend to sell or trade the Knight Mag Disc .50, I bought this Encore 209x50 in very slightly used condition

Did a trigger job which came out GREAT!, removed the front sight and added a filler screw, polished the bore with JB, turned the hammer extension to the left after taking some metal off its top and using aluminum black on it, worked on some gouges in the included Tasco 6X with the black then stored the Tasco, put on the Bushnell in the picture as it was already in rings - just had to sit it in the base, rubbed the stock a bit with an oil rag, and took a pic. (edited the background and lost the rear stud as well as made some rough edges while doing so).

Ready to shoot!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Only briefly tested the new .45 barrel and the only sabots are tried are the heavy 350 grain PowerStars that you probably wouldn't like... :)

I posted that group before and it definitely shows vast improvement!!

Edited by - Underclocked on 02/02/2003 13:57:11

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Sharp looking rifle,looks like mine.Still waiting for t/c to return my 45 barrel.
What are you planning to shoot in the 50 cal big bullets also?I received some PB in 200 gr (dead center) and 195gr and 240 gr,I want to try in my 45 and 50 soon as we get some decent weather to shoot in.
I think you got a good deal.Counting scope,over sized pin,springs and triger job I have around $800 bucks not counting buying the 50 cal barrel in mine.Gonna have to quit buying guns they are getting too expensive.
Let us know how it shoots

http://www.hunting-pictures.com/memb...ght&encore.jpg

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Thanks Herman, I will. Planning to start with some 300 grain Hornady XTPs and black Knight sabots riding on about 80 grains of FFg T7.

Might try some cast bullets later but I don't really have a good mold for the .50s yet.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Got my Encore barrel back Monday took it to the range yesterday,checked the twist rate and it was 1:28,I think they have it right now.
Wasn' t trying to work out a load yet just wanted to shoot it and get the barrel smooth,had a target with a 6in circle at 50 yds,and a 10 in circle at 100 yds.Shot 6 different bullets and loads from 100 gr to 120 grs of Pyrodex,and cleanshot,every shot I took was inside the circles at 50 and 100 yds.
What I found out was that the barrel was very tight,shot the first load with the clean barrel,swabbed with spit patch turned over and run the patch down and out the barrel again,then couldn' t get the next bullet down the barrel,took the breech plug out,pushed the started bullet back out,cleaned the barrel,bullet went down ok.shot again used the spit patch again bullet got stuck again in the barrel wouldn' t go down had to remove again.but if I cleaned the barrel with cleaner
between shots the bullet would go down ok.Never had a rifle in any make with barrel that tight before.
Took it home cleaned good and gave it a good going over with JB' s, next time I shoot i am going to shoot some patched round balls to see if that helps also.
In my opionion if I was going to get the 209x45 I would make sure it has the newer 1 :28 twist.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Ditto on the tightness of my new barrel, Herman. Mine actually mics a little over .449 . Put the JB to mine also but haven' t shot it since. Need to get it and the .50 out and do some shooting but it' s about to start a 2 day rain.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Underclocked,I was going to mic mine but couldn' t figure out how with the false muzzle,but after it gets broken in some I believe it will be as good as the 50 cal.
every bullet I shot yesterday at 100 yds would have killed a deer where as the 1:20 twist I couldn' t get any kind of groups at 50 yds little on a 100 yd shot.
Been thinking about shooting some patched round balls in it to see if it helps if the J B ' s don' t help.
Wished I knew what the diameter was really susposed to be,I checked the dia. of some T/C maxi-balls and got .456 but haven' t tried getting one of those down the barrel yet.Couldn' t check the dia of the Knight 45 because I sold it.
Checked one of T/C bullet and sabot and got .452, so if you got .449 no wonder it is hard to get down the barrel.Think it will be ok anyhow after it has been shot some.
It was easy to get down the barrel when barrel was clean but after one shot and 1 spit patch,I just couldn' t get a bullet down the barrel without beating it down.
will keep posted,someone else might have gotten the 45 cal.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Yep, they' ve tightened those babies up considerable in addition to the twist change. That Maxi-ball may mic .446 at the base ring but if you measure up on the top band it will be .45x . If you grease one up and run it through the bore you might be able to mic it where the flats impress the bullet. Run it in with the breech plug removed and then slowly push it back out from the breech.

I had the QLA cut off mine so it was a bit easier to measure.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Since you mentioned the QLA do you think it takes away any accuracy by having it cut off.I have thought about having this done to mine,the reason is that I had read on the PB site that (pression bullets) that he had it removed and the pics of the groups he gets don' t show that he hurt anything by cutting it off.
We have some bad weather for the next several days so won' t get to the range for awhile.Can' t wait to try after the JB job.This is the first rifle that I shot new without the JB' s,treatment,looks like I should have did that first but with all the rain and bad weather we have had this year, was in too big of a hurry to try the new barrel out.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Herman, no I don' t think it hurts a thing accuracy-wise to remove the QLA. It' s there to help get a straight alignment of the bullet to the bore and does nothing otherwise to aid accuracy. So long as you can load the bullet correctly the QLA is at best only a slight help in that regard. I' m sure it' s more of an advantage for sabot alignment. I removed mine before I discovered the White PowerStars that my rifle likes so well. It might have shot equally well with the QLA in place.

T/C claims the QLA eliminates the need for a short starter but I would disagree.

Cecil removed his because the QLA was off center with respect to the bore and was seriously hurting accuracy.

I have a friend/gunsmith that did mine for nearly nothing so .....

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Underclocked did the JB work for you? I did the jB treatment,bullet stared a little easier down but had to put lots of pressue to get it all the way down,got a break in the rain so I tried the patch and ball,put in 100 grs of cleanshot ,patched ball,shot it ,spit patch turned over and ran back down the barrel,loaded another patch and ball,shot it,spit patch,turned it over and ran back down barrel.decided to see if I was getting anywhere,powder,180 gr sabot (.357 bullet) went down ok,shot it .patch,loaded a 40 cal and sabot went down barrel good.
Think I have that ;problem solved now,now hopefully get a decent day next week so I can get to the range to work on getting it to shoot good.Got several different bullets I want to try

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Haven' t shot the rifle since doing the JB thing, Herman. I also bought a 7/16" diameter range rod with a .50 jag on one end and a .45 jag on the other. Figured that would help at the range as the very tight fit in the .45 should give me a bit more pushing power. Those White PowerStars shoot GREAT! but are extremely hard to get down that tight bore.

Snowing here now so will have to wait a few more days for any shooting.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

HI, I' M FAIRLY NEW AND HAVE BEEN MONITORING THIS POST. MY BROTHER AND MYSELF BOTH PURCHASED ONCORE 45 CAL. LAST YEAR. AFTER SHOOTING DIFFERENT LOADS AND BULLETS WE WERE VERY UNHAPPY WITH THE GUNS PERFORMANCE. I WROTE A LONG LETTER TO THE COMPANY ASKING ABOUT NEW BARRELS IN 1:28 TWIST AND IF NOT AVAILABLE WOULD STTLE WITH 50 CAL.
REPLACEMENTS AS A LAST RESORT. THE GUNS WERE SHIPPED ON JULY 19, 2002. WE RECEIVED THE GUNS BACK ON AUG 16, 2002. THEIR RESPONSE WAS THEY FOUND NOTHING WRONG. WE TESTED THE RIFLES AFTER GETTING THEM BACK AND FOUND THEY SHOT A LITTLE BETTER USIING CVA 225 AERO TIPS. MY QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU DETERMINE IF THEY REPLACED THE BARREL? IT SEEMS THEY ARE NOT NOTIFYING ANYONE THAT THEY DID. IS THEIR A WAY OF DETERMINING THE TWIST RATE?
THANKS

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Take a cleaning rod with a handle that turns,put on a 45 cal jag and patch,I put a black mark on the rod facing me near the handle,You can tell when you start down the barrel after the false muzzle watch the rod as it turns as you slowly push the rod down the barrel,it won' t make a complete turn because you only have 25 1/2 inches of barrel,but it will come around (the mark where you can see it,mark the rod again at end of barrel,measure from the mark you just made to the end of the jag,should be around 25 in.It takes 28 inches of barrel to make a complete turn.
Hope I explained good enough if I didn' t maybe some one else will.
I just sent my barrel back and included some of the targets that I shot with my 50 cal barrel so they could see the difference.On the package slip tht came with it was wrote replaced barrel.
Hope this helps you and your brother

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Went back to the range today,decided to give the 777 another try,so only took 1/2 can of fff ,encore 45, and different bullets.357 cal.- 158and 180 gr,hornady,40 cal,180 and 155 gr. hornady xtp,barnes 195 gr, power belts 195 gr,and 225 gr. precisson bullets,200 and 240 gr.
Using only 100 gr,110gr and 120 gr loads only got 3 different bullets to group 2 in or less at 100 yds.They were hornady 180 xtp in 40 cal,120 grs of 777 (fff),barnes 195 gr and 120 gr 777 (fff) and the pression bullet in 200 gr and 120 gr 777.
Was really surprised at the 777 last sumer I shot 2 1/2 cans in ff,and fff and the bullets were very hard to get down the barrel even with a spit patch between shots today I didn' t have that problem,I think it was because I worked the spit patch up and down the barrel several times and turned it over and ran it up and down several times.as before with pyrodex I licked a patch ran it all the way down pulled it out turned it over and ran it back down and out with out working it any.
Was going to set the scope with the 180 gr bullets then found out my scope wouldn' t track.Was using a Simmons atec because I just got it returned to me,and wanted to see how it would do on the muzzleloader.Oh well will put on the burris or nikon and try again another day

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Sounds like you are having some bum luck with those Simmons scopes, Herman.

I' ll try another splainin' job on the twist determination. First of all, you HAVE to have a cleaning rod that is able to turn freely and independent of the handle. Put a .45 jag on it along with a TIGHT fitting patch. Make a small witness mark on the rod about 27" up from the jag. Insert the cleaning rod into the bore until it just begins contact with the rifling, then be sure the witness mark is aligned with top dead center of the barrel (front sight?). Slowly run the rod into the bore, allowing free rotation of the rod as it goes. When it bottoms out, take note of the position of the witness mark in terms of it' s revolutions (ie, a 1:28 will give you 7/8 of a full turn).

For the purpose of what you are trying to determine, less than a full turn is 1:28, more than a full turn is 1:20 as those are the two available twists.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

I think you did a better explaining job than I did.Yes I am tired of the atec scopes,when I bought the first one it was over $200 bucks thought it would be a good one.
I am still scratching my head over the 777,haven' t tried it again in my 50 cal,but when I tested it the other day there was as much difference in the testing as day and night.and it is the left over 1/2 can I was using out of last summer.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

herman,
I have a .45 cal Omega with the 1-20" twist that I will be sending back to T.C. shortly. Hopefully they will replace the barrel wtih the newer 1-28" twist.
It sounds like you are having better luck with the 1-28" barrel. The groups that you are shooting are they 3 or 5 shot group averages @ 100yds?
Keep it in the 10X
mac454

RE: Encore Quality??
 

I usually shoot 3 shoot groups because I don' t think I will ever get 5 shots at a deer.I have taken 2 deer at the same time twice and one was with 2 shots and one was with 3 shots ( I missed it the first time).
Yes I would send the barrel back and see if they will put a 1:28 twist barrel on.
The 1:20 barrel I got first you couldn' t hit a bull in the ass at 25 yds.The 1:28 so far shows a lot of promise,I haven' t got it fined tuned yet because of the weather but should pretty soon.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Thought I would jump in here also if ya dont mind. I picked up a 209X50 stainless today for $506 (best price I could find on a new one). I have a couple Q' s also. Frist, when you talk about JB' s, are you referring to JB' s bore polish available from Brownell' s, and what is the advantage of using it? Does it smooth up the barrel for easier cleaning or loading? Where did you get the filler screw for the sights, Brownells (Brownells is 4 miles from my house:D)? I will use a scope and wouldnt mind ditching the iron sights. Do you recommend removing the 209 ejector? Finally, has anybody seen a " Michigan Hunters special edition" with the laminated wood stocks? I love the looks of it but nobody knows what Im talking about or knows where to get one. Sorry about dumping all the newbie Q' s into your post, and thanks for any help.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

TimberPig, I' ll try to answer your questions.

" Frist, when you talk about JB' s, are you referring to JB' s bore polish available from Brownell' s, and what is the advantage of using it? Does it smooth up the barrel for easier cleaning or loading?" That' s a yes on all counts.

" Where did you get the filler screw for the sights, Brownells (Brownells is 4 miles from my house )?" You lucky dog. The scope base filler screws work for the rear sight holes, the front sight filler is one I scavenged at Bass Pro in Springfield, MO. Their gunshop accumulates filler screws and they are more than glad to see come begging. :)

" Do you recommend removing the 209 ejector?" Absolutelyl!

" Finally, has anybody seen a " Michigan Hunters special edition" with the laminated wood stocks?" No, but I think they are either the nutmeg or salt&pepper laminated stock made by http://www.boydboys.com/.

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Herman and Undercocked, thanks for the response. Checked the twist with a cleaning rod as you explained. The mark rotated around so it looks like it still is 1:20 twist. Being this will be the second time we will be sending the barrels back does anyone have any suggesuions on what to say or who to talk to so the barrels get replaced with the new ones.
Thanks

RE: Encore Quality??
 

Thanks Underclocked! By golly I think your right about those Boyd' s stocks too. Looks to be the pepper version and at about $100 they are priced pretty good for a laminated stock. I' ll save that link and if this gun shoots decent I will probably order one. I always thought a stainless rifle with a gray laminated stock was about as pretty as they get. Thanks alot.......T-pig.