nchawkeye

Cay...I believe Shocky's standard load was the 300gr Barnes and 100 grains before he switched to Nosler...

I have 2 muzzleloaders for deer...My .54 flinter that I built and my Knight Disc, I bought on clearance from Bass Pro several years ago (It has a 22 inch barrel)...

With the flinter I have shot 125 grs of powder and a ball, but I was having to put nesting material over the powder as I was burning patches...Went to 100grs for a few years and have settled on 80 for 5 years or so...Dang if I can tell the difference in deer, I actually have a theory that with higher velocities the ball mushrooms more on impact so you don't really see more pass throughs...Not really sure, but 80 is a light kicking load and is all that's needed for whitetails...Franky with open sights you need to hold your shots to somewhere around 125 or so...As long as a load shoots fairly flat out to that range, more powder isn't needed...With muzzleloaders it's more about the weight of the projectile...That's why some like the PowerBelt and some don't...If you move to the ?348 gr PowerBelt you should see full penetration...

In my Knight...btw I have probably shot 5-600 rounds through, even though I have only killed 20 deer or so with...
I have tried up to 120 grains FFF triple 7...Dang thing kicked like a mule and didn't group worth a dang with 5-6 different bullets...

The first 2-3 years with the Knight I used 2-Pyrodex pellets and a 300 grain Barnes copper....This will always exit on our deer down here in NC...btw...I too bought into the early reports on pellets giving more velocity...I have since gone back to either Pyrodex, I picked up 3 cans for $5 a can a few years ago, or just Goex FFF...I used this for my flintlocks and the distributor is about an hour down the road ($11.50 a pound)...

I have now gotten away from the pellets and shoot 90grs Pyrodex R-S or 90grs Goex FFF and a 250 Shockwave...I have killed several deer with this and a buddy a few more...I moved to this because it is more aerodynamic than the Barnes and my Knight with this bullet will group in the 2 - 2 1/2 inch area at 150, but that is my pre set limit...

MLKeith

Dave: I will try to keep this as short as possible. I do not shoot magnum loads. First elk was huge cow mid 600 pounds, 348 powerbelt from T/C Scout with 80gr. Goex Clear Shot (crappy powder). Bullet keyholed and went through center of heart sideways and lodged in far side between ribcage and skin aerotip still in bullet. Distance was 80 yards. Next M/L Elk was small bull head shot at 40 yards, T/C Omega 90gr. Black Mag'3 and 300gr. SST. Last one was fair sized cow broadside at 90 yards, T/C Omega 90gr. BM3 300gr. SST, one lung and part of liver, complete pass through, Second shot 90gr. BM3 295gr. Powerbelt aerotip, running shot offhand at 85 yards, double lung (probably more luck than skill but she was already hit so I had to chance it) bullet was complete pass through also. Cow went another 200 yards and was still standing when I head shot her to finish it. Now that I have the T-Bolt I might try a magnum load just to see how it shoots that. I want to get the rifle well sighted in for shots at the 150 yard range. I passed one up at 140 yards ranged last hunt because the Omega is not consistent for me at that range. The T-bolt is going to weigh close to 9 1/2 pounds when scoped so I possibly can take the recoil. I only weigh 155 pounds and have ashattered collar bone and a once broken neck so recoil is not my favorite thing.

nchawkeye

More thoughts...I bought my first flintlock in the mid-70s...Custom made, .45 caliber, round ball only...I hunted with this until 1990 or so, when I finished my .54....I was younger (could see better) and many years I never pulled out my .243, just fell in love with shooting the fllintlock...I had 2 powder charges...50 grains FFF that I used for squirrels, rabbits etc, and I did kill one wild turkey with in '79...

The other charge was 75 grains FFF for deer...I probably killed 40-50 deer with this load...I knew it would penetrate a 2x4 at 75 yards and found out that it would go through shoulder blades, spine, ribs, lungs, whatever was needed to get into the vitals...It didn't usually pass through, but it mushroomed great and they didn't go over 50-75 yards...It was really all that's needed, inside 75-100 yards or so...

When I decided to build a .54, I did a ton of research...I was looking for a bear rifle as I had an incident with a pretty good sized black bear on one of our farms in NC...I wanted to stay with a flintlock and a patched ball...In doing my research I learned that with regular black powder you reach a plateau, or an area of diminishing returns...Also, lets face it, with real black powder you just have a heck of a time getting over 2,000 fps and anywhere between 1600-1800 fps will shoot pretty flat out to 100 yards or so...Heck, hit a deer with a all copper .54 caliber ball that can't expand and you still have a pretty good wound through the lungs....

Finally...I got the 1st edition of the Longhunter Society...Its the NMLRA record book...The record grizzly bear was killed with 120grains FF Goex and a .530 lead ball, shot at 100 yards the ball passed through both lungs and was found under the skin on the off side...I figured that was good enough for me...And it has been.

cayugad

From looking at the posts so far, while some push the max load for the rifle, very few find it necessary. And yet the job is getting done. The information on elk and bear I find real interesting as they are hard to pass through with a muzzleloader projectile from what I have been told.

120 grains of Goex FF and a .530 roundball would be a good load. In my .58 caliber I shoot 110 grains of Goex 2f and that .570 grain roundball and the power of that load is excellent. I am guessing that would have some real bone breaking ability.

XxHolleyxX

I'm also finding these posts extremely interesting. I called my "gotta shoot 3 pellets" buddy in my office at lunchtime and let him read the thread. I think he is finally getting the picture. It's pretty uncommon to find many deer here over two hundred pounds, and people are getting what I would consider extreme penetration on elk and bear...without magnum charges. Awsome!

In my situation Iam getting comparable accuracy with three loads...80g 240 XTC, 90g 250 ShockWave, and 120g TMZ. I had chosen the TMZ from a ballistic standpoint, though I havent run the numbers yet. I just figured the trajectory would be alot better with the extra velocity. Though...at the distances I plan on shooting it probably wont make much difference anyway. Just thinking out loud.

Holley

eldeguello

Reading in a recent issue of Guns & Ammo, I noted that a representative from Hodgdon Powder Co., discussing their new 777 MAGNUM pellets, stated that a 250-grain sabotted bullet fired with two of these delivered more muzzle energy than a .30/'06 with a 200-grain bullet!

Elsewhere in this article, a MV of 2000 FPS was claimed for this load. Being the wise-guy that I am, I could not accept this statement without seeing for myself. My trusty calculator gave me a figure of 2221 foot/pounds for the KE of the 250-grain sabot load. But when I figured out the 200-grain .30/'06 load, I was amazed that the '06 actually delivers in the vicintiy of 1,000 foot/pounds MORE energy than the sabot does with those magnum pellets. I can fire a 200-grain 308" bullet from my '06 at 2680 FPS, which works out to 3190foot-pounds. In addition, that 200-gr PSPBT will carry a lot more energy all the way past 1000 yards much better than the best ML bullet ever made.

Now, we all know that "foot-pounds" is a very poor indicator of killing power, and that a big fat slug from a ML is pretty devastating. But I still believe we really have to take a lot of these claims with a big glob of salt! I think we get more killing power from a ML by increasing the size & weight of its' bullets, not by trying to make a modern, high-powdered rifle out of it by putting in more powder. There is definitely a point of diminishing returns when it comes to trying to burn more and more powder.....

MLKeith

WELL DONE!!! I do not know why someone from Hodgdon would make such a false statement. Why people seem to think that they can compare muzzleloaders to high power center fire rifles is beyond me. I can take almost anyones well sighted centerfire in medium level .30 cal and make a 200 yard shot with ease. I do not even attempt it with any of my muzzleloaders as I have not spent the time and effort to develop that level of shooting with them. I tried with my Omega to reach 200 yards but the rifle just is not repeatable enough yet. Now that I have a couple of White .504's things might look up for those longer shots but they will never match a 30-06 or similar cartridge gun for longer accurate shots without the effort.

TNHagies

I have never shot "magnum" loads out of any of my rifles. The deer I hunt are small in comparrision to most of the country. A 140lb deer is a very big deer where I hunt. That being said: most of my loads are in the 80-110 grain range. My Genesis' sweet spot is100grns.That being said, ifit shot better at 80 then I'd shoot that because I don't feel the need to shoot a magnum charge.A second reason is because I never shoot over 75 yards. The woods I hunt are so thick you most of the time can't see more than 40 or 50yrds so I don't need to worry about ft lbs at 200yrds. Roundballs out of my hawkin and K. Rifle are pushed by 80 grns. I generally get pass throughs on all my deer even w/the 80grns and a PRB. Why increase it?

I know guys that swear by the 150 charge but its overkill at least where we hunt.

falcon

For about three years i usedvery heavy charges of Pyrodex in my muzzleloaders. Used 130 grains and more of granularor three, 50 grain pellets to shoot hogs and deer. Talked with several experienced m/l hunters and found out thatthese heavy loads were not necessary.

Stopped using Pyrodex pellets andwent to 100 grains of granular Pyrodex with the 240 grain XTP bullet. This load killed deer and hogs just as dead as the heavier loads. A few hogs were killed with 100 grains of granular Pyrodex andthe .44 caliber, 300 grain XTP bullets from my CVA Mag. Hunter.

Bought an Encore last fall. Found out that it shoots very well with 90 grains of JSG and the 250 grain SST. Killedseven deer and hogs with that load. All were bang flops except one deer that was shot low in the shoulders.

Found some 50 grain Pyrodex pellets stashed awayand have started using them in my cheap and very accurate Stag Horn. That gun likes nearly every load i have ever tried in it.With the .44 caliber XTP it shoots to thesame point of aim with 100 grains of granularas it does with two 50 grain pellets.

For me there isa challenge to hunting with a muzzleloader. You have one shot. It gives me the incentive to hone up onhunting skills that i do not use whenzapping a pig or deer at 400 yards with a .300 Win Mag.Do notknowthe velocity ofmost of my favoritem/l loads and could care less.They work well for me, even at ranges longer than 150 yards.

The .58 caliber Springfield rifled musket used during the Civil War used 60 grains of black powder. The Minie "ball" weighed about 500 grains. Velocity was about 1,000 fps. At 600 yards the bullet would penetrate six one-inch pine boards. We have come a long way since then: Or have we really?

cascadedad

1) Last year was my first year with a ML. I used 110 gr of 777 3f.

2) Last year was a White Ultra Mag, 26" barrel. This year will either be the Ultra Mag or the new Lightning (22" barrel). Haven't decided.

3) 460 gr Bullshop

4) #11 (RWS)

5) No. Although the Lightning does have a scope on it right now, if I only had an opportunity to get out shooting. It will come off before hunting season.

6) Deer. Would love to elk hunt, but just not the time at this stage of my life.

7) For me, I was trying to squeek out flattest trajectory I could get. I hunt open country. As far as effectiveness on game, I do not think the difference in powder charge using these big conicals makes that much difference. This is just based on what I have read and what makes sense to me.

8) I would feel comfortable taking a 150 yard shot if the conditions were right.

9) No.

10) No.

11) 110 gr last year.

A couple things to note. I am still thinking it out in my mind what charge I will shoot this year. I may very well back down from the 110 gr load. Just have to think it though.

When I hunt I carry a walking/shooting stick. I have it as long as it will go and I have found that it works great as opposed to shooting offhand. There are no trees where I hunt. Last year my son and I were just ending a hunt through an area when a coyote appeared. I estimated at about 100 yards and it was down a fairly steep hill. He was walking from right to left and did not see us. I quickly decided to aim low as I was shooting downhill. He never knew what hit him and went flying through the air, over the side of the hill. He was howling in pain while I was reloading. We went down and I thought for sure we would find him, but all we found was blood. After thinking the shot through I believe I compensated and shot a littletoo low. I believe if it were a deer or elk, it would have been down.

I have shot 120 gr of 777 behind the 460 Bullshop and 100 gr of 777 behind a 620 gr Bullshop. I think most would be surprised that the recoil is not as bad as one might assume. It is stiff, but totally manageable.