ML Ripoff
 

I need some advice. I sent a brand new Knight Disc Elite rifle, along with almost $500 in cash to a Stock Maker in Indiana. I did this ten months ago. I was promised my rifle in 60 days. Now the smith will not even return my e-mails. I think he has ran out ofexcuses. This Stock Maker was recommended to me by none other than Tony Knight himself. How would you guys proceed? Do I have any legal rights?Are there any ethics boards for gunsmith's? I do not wish to put his name in print yet, but that will soon change. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

HEAD001....where in Indiana? I am here in Indianapolis. If you want me to check it out PM me with info on who and where the guy is and I will check it out for you.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Peru, Indiana. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I would contact Tony Knight he may have an idea how toget a hold ofthe guy and explain the problem to him seem he did recommend him

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Start by sending him a certified letterstating that he has so many days/weeks to return the rifle and the $500 cash or you wil proceed with legal action. If he doesn't return your property within the given time frame, start by filing a theft report with your local law enforcement. From there, you might want to contact the police/sheriffs department within his home town and see what kind of steps you need to take to file a report with them. If you shipped the muzzleloader to him via the U.S. Postal service, you might beable to get them involved some how. This kind of situation can be tricky andfrustrating with you living in one state and him, and his business, in another.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I concur with you lone wolf. I just hate to hang another person without giving him all the rope I can. I sent him one last e-mail this evening. I hate to make waves, but somewhere along the line I think I am going to have to make a few. I posted on a couple of sites, and I am really hoping he reads my post and takes care of the problem before I have to take the next step. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Have you asked him for a refund and return of the rifle at any point?If so, what was his response? If he was worth anything as a business man, he should have offered that option to you a while back, seeing that he's apparently waaaay behind onscheduled delivery dates.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

He did offer me a refund one time, about four months ago. But at that time he assured me that I would have my new stock in 30 more days. He said he had the wood(I ordered a piece of exhibition grade Walnut). I really did want the stock, so we agreed that he would finish the project. But that was 4 months ago. He has only responded to me one other time since that response. There would have been an additional $250 charge to finish the rifle(payable upon completion), but he said he would waiver the additional charge , becausehe knew he had been screwing me around. I really did want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

The Smith just sent me an e-mail stating that the stock has been carved. And that he is about to fit the action. He said it would take 4 to 6 more weeks. His question was do I want the stock or my money back(I really do want the stock). What do you guys think? Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

You say you really want the stock but, it's been over 10 months now and he is telling you another six weeks. If you relly want the stock and he did respond this time I would ask for a telephone number where you could contact himand then I would ask for a weekly update.If he baulks at that or fails to give you an update then I would ask him to returnyour gun and your money.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Heck....if its been 10 months and you really want the stock, whats another 6 weeks. I would contact him in some fashion weekly. The old squeeky wheel and oil thing. Good luck and I hope it works out to your satisfaction. Sounds like a quality piece you will enjoy for many years.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I asked him to send me my rifle and my money back. He has said 30 more days too many times. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Get your money and rifle back. Its been there to long.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

How did you send the money? Did you mail it (or the gun)? If so, contact the Postal Inspector and file a complaint. If he refuses to make good, I believe he can be prosecuted for mail fraud. This would be in addition to any civil action you might wish to take against the guy!

RE: ML Ripoff
 

He has already >>>DEMONSTRATED<<< his unfaithfullness, while you have his attention get your money back and go to a person with an excellent reputation. He does NOT deserve to do your work for you, also what if you find it is unacceptable, you think he is going to work with you? I don't think so. The scripture says a man who is honest in small things will be honest in large things. He does NOT deserve your hard earned money.
Chap Gleason Va

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Get your money and rifle back.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Hmmm, sounds like the guy has time into the project already by carving the stock. He may not want to give a full refund at this point. Also sounds like the guy is realy busy. Sometimes people that do good work and have a reputation get so much work it is hard to keep up. And he came well recomended too. It is a hard call to make, myself being a bit impatient I would have trouble waiting, but sounds like it is half way done now. Maybe if he would give you a phone number and keep you aprized of the progress you should let him finish.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

This is the third time he said he had the stock carved. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Tough call.[X(]

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I wouldnt of let it gone this long. Send him a certified leter demanding your gun and a refund. I wouldnt care if he did get the stock carved allready that is his loss due to his being slow. If you dont get it back talk to a lawyer and have him send the guy a letter on thier letter head. Keep everyone posted and I know I wont want to send nothing to that guy.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

you need to have the gun shipped back. it has been sitting too long with the same lame old excuses.there are many stock makers to choose from just do some more research. i would never have a stock made over the phone. a good stockmaker will take measuremants and make critical suggestions. i would first ask to speak to him on the phone and tell him you want to discuss it. then you will have his number at least. then tell him you want your money back and your gun. also set a time limit you expect it shipped back so that process doesnt get delayed. enough is enough.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

http://buckskinstocks.com/ ?

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I'd get my gun and money back. I wouldn't have had as much patience as you've had with this feller. He ain't the only stock maker around.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Many times you can file a complaint with the states attorney and get results. Also file a complaint with the better bussnessbureau which may help you but will be a warning to others.

I was able to do it online when an Ohio beekeeper did not deliver as promised a product bought and paid for, then stopped answering his phone or returning messages left about the products delivery.
:)Al

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I'd ask for my rifle and money back.

If he's TRULY started carving on YOUR stock, odds are he can't use it anywhere out and if you ask for everything back, he should bend over backward to finish it ASAP sohe doesn't have to eat it.

And if he easily rolls over and agrees to send your stuff back, that means he hasn't started carving your stock at all...he probably doesn't even have it.

He's jerking you around...end it.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Curious whatever happened with this. Ever get your gun back?

RE: ML Ripoff
 

The guy stole my money. I was reporting the ML stolen to the police-so he returned the ML. But he kept the money. The guy is a thief. I was going to do a new post on the guy. His name is Buckskin out of Peru, Indiana. He told me four times he would return my rifle and my money. He decided to keep the money, he said since I asked for my rifle back-that meant I was canceling the order-so he had the right to keep the money. Can you believe that.

His name is Rich Scott. So beware the thievesare out there.

I would still like to have a LH thumbhole stock for my new Knight rifle. The problem is that I am already into this stock for $500. Pretty sad huh. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Small Claims Court - Better Business Bureau - Post the story on every forum you can find.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

WOW!! sorry to hear that. It is a shame when someone treats another in such a manner.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Makes me sick to my stomach hearing stuff like that. Good luck to you. If you have to take him to small claims, make sure you print out all the emails with him saying its almost done, blah blah blah. Thats more than enough proof.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

It is not a question of proof. The problem is I am in WV and he is in Indiana. And the police here, and the police there do not care. I have all the e-mails and the cancelled check, the problem is we are close to 500 miles apart. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I am not giving you legal advice as I am not an attorney but I would agree that it does sound as if youhave a strong civil case against this person. The problem is do you want to go through all the bother to take him to small claims court (what is is called in Wisconsin). Filing a complaint is normally not a large investment, and many times small business people do not want a claim to go against them, so they settle out of court. You might get at least something back that way.

Being 500 miles away, you would have to drive there to appear in court when it finally came up on the docket, and that could take years depending on the court calendar. Although it is a way to be a real thorn in his side. He would have to gamble that he could prove his case, or hire an attorney and that would cost him money as well. It might be worth a 500 mile trip. Any frequent flyer miles... :D?

When it would come to small claims, some states allow you to collect more then the amount you were cheated out of. Whether Indiana does this again, I have no knowledge of.

Be sure and see if Indiana has a better business bureau and file a complaint against him as well. While they would investigate the complaint, they have no jurisdiction or authorityto order him to return the money. What they do is basically check his side, and investigate if there is indeed acomplaint. And many States have a hit list he would be added on. So for instance, if I wanted a stock carved and checked the better business bureau for him, it would come back that he had a complaint and I could then see what happened.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I am a handicapped person, and a trip that far would be a major event. If it was ten years ago I would have already made the trip. I would not have needed the police or the courts. I would have taken it out of his axx. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Tom, if you sent the check via USPS - get them involved. His behavior is criminal.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

I sent the check with the rifle. I shipped them both UPS. I talked to UPS and they do not care. I do plan on calling the BBB. I will provide them with my copies of the e-mails. There is more than enough proof in my e-mails. I also plan on contacting Knight, along with any gunsmith organizations I can find. He is listed as Buckskin in several places. Tom.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Contact the state Attorney General, They MAYBE can help you.
As I stated in a post farther up I had to do this with a person in Ohio and I did get my money back.

I did it on line, the internet.

:DAl

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Get your rifle and money back. Once it's back in your hands, post the name and address of this guy. Let the whole world know that neither his service, nor Tony Knights word is worth squat.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

The scripture says that every man's sin is his own. So lets see what this means. Clearly the fellow has sinned againstTom and wronged him greatly, in fact since he is handicapped he needs some help here. Tony Knight may not have know that this man was not reputable, so Tony should be alerted also so he no longer recommends the man. Tony did no sin in my mind. When the signers of the Constitution signed their name, they called their honor "sacred" (a man's word ishis bond---let your yes be yes and your no be no is what the Bible says)no man should have his sacred honor publicallysmeared without going to him as Matthew says 1st 1 on 1, and if he repents you have won a friend, if he don't take two and if he repents then you have won a friend, but if he doen't throw him out of the church (or the brotherhood of ML in our case). I would claim that that is the way to act toward a fellow muzzleloader, give him the benefit of the doubt, but make him aware of it. If he said "I had no Idea, I am so sorry this happen to you, can I help", then you have won a friend. But if he gets angry, thenbring two and say what this man has done to you. If he still says get out of my face, they he is worthy of public ridicule and his sacred honor would be tarnished by his own actions.
Chap Gleason

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Head, sorry to hear it, I was hoping for a happy ending. I think we should all call and tell the guy what POS he is. But it won't help things any.

RE: ML Ripoff
 

Does anyone live maybe 1 hour from the guy and could pay him a visit with Power of Attorney or something like that to get his money back. That would be an awsome thing to do. Does anyone know a lawyer who is willing to make a phone call or do pro bono work. Does anyone know a state police or local police in his town who would be willing to stop by.
I got action on aneBay sale that was not delivered to me by calling the local police, the went by and ask about things and I got delivery on the thing within a week. Chap Gleason