RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

Some people do not know or understand a round ball. I have taken 3 deer and a bear at 175 + that droped with in 10 yds long before we ever head of a inline. I believe from my own experance that a combination of speed and caliber, is what is most efffective, a 54 cal ball at 2100 fps will normally drop a deer with in 10 yds, but you have to place it right. Now we come to the problem alot of people try to exceed their capabilities then look for some thing like the gun or bullet to blame it on. You have to do your home work to be a decant sportsman hunter you have to know the velocity you can use with a certain bullet they all have a velocity range with in which they work well. If you want toshoot past minimum range [100yds] you must be able to shoot well enough to start with then know the trajectory and be able to judge thedistance accurately. My own tes for this is the ability to shoot under a 20 inch string measure @ 175 yds under the same conditions that they hold the hawken or moutain man match at Friendship. Lee

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

Chap, the limiting factor in shooting round balls are open sights and how well each hunter can shoot with them...There are many stories during the American Revolution of British officers being killed at 3-400 yards...Now in 1776 if you are shot in the guts by a ball and the bullet penetrates 8-10 inches, you are a dead man, it might take 2-3 days, but its going to happen....

In 1760 the number one export from the small town of Salisbury, NC was deer hides...This is the area that Daniel Boone moved into with his parents in the early 1750s...Deer and bear in this area were basically wiped out by the early 1800s...All with flintlock longrifles and shooting round balls...

What we need to remember though is recovery of the animal...If you were hunting on the plains out west then 150 yards or so might be a viable shot as you can watch the animal, and if they drop 200 yards away you will see it...
Here in NC and VA, we would prefer that the animal drop within 100 yards or so and as many of us aren't the trackers our ancesters were, we want full penetration so we have more of a chance of a good blood trail...

Last year, I tracked a deer for my brother...The deer was shot with a .270, range was about 80 yards....But, the deer was not hit properly...It took us 3 hours to find the deer, the first 75 yards or so we would find a drop of blood every 15-20 yards or so....I bet most hunters would have lost that deer...But...
I was hunting on the same farm and heard the bullet hit the deer...I had hunted the stand before and knew where the deer came from and from his description of the deer's reaction and where it headed after the shot I thought I had a good idea of where it was going...I am also anal on recovery of an animal that's been hit, we are there to kill deer and if one is hit I make every effort to find it...Once the wound opened up it was a cake walk, the deer traveled about 150 yards, he had hit it behind the shoulder, but the deer was quartering toward him and the exit was plugged with intestions...

All that being said, with a .50 caliber ball, 100 grains of powder, open sights, hunting in Eastern VA or NC...I would keep my shots to 100 yards....With my .54 it would be 125 or so, if they are in a open field and 50-60 yards from the woods line...Now, with a .50 you will get less pass throughs than my .54...That's something else to consider...On lung shots with a round ball, from a tree stand, hold tight behind the crease of the shoulder (if broad side or quartering slightly away) and just below horizontal, the ribs are not as thick there and you will have a better chance of a full pass through...If they are quartering to you, hold where the neck joins the shoulder, sending the ball through the heart or the top of the heart...

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

I think its all there is to it. Put it in the right place, its going down. Misplace it, and maybe a jacket will help, or maybe extra powder will help but chances are just as good it won't help. Its such a simple thing . . . really is. Know the projectile, know the load, be disciplined enough to shoot within the limits of accuracy. One simply won't be dissappointed if he does that.

It's notmy placeto advise anyone on what they should use. There isn't a single choice out there which won't do the job, so pick what strikes one's fancy, I say.One should use what "he wants" for all the reasons "he wants to". That will make the experience much more enjoyable and the results will always be positive if the shot is placed as we have all been taught.

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

Tar Heel Hawkeye,
Yes, I am familiar with that Barnes bullet.I thought Shockey always used Nosler Partitions for years and years:
http://www.cabelas.com/information/cabelasfieldguides/BlackPowderTechniques/AninterviewwithJimShockeyaboutmuzzleloadersbiggame andhisquestfortheUltimateSlam..html

The above link is from 2002.Most of the barnes are real good bullets, they are expensive though, I am going to test them out.
Chap

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

I was at my office earlier...just checked in my gun room...They are the Barnes Expander MZ...I still have a 10 pack, that was $11.99 a few years back...I'm about 95 % sure Shockey used these before the Noslers, that's another point.....These guys on TV and writing books, etc...follow the money...Take a guy like me, I didn't even load my Knight this year, I have shot it at least 500 times, I know what it will do and it has its purpose...

I killed 2 deer this year withmy .54 caliber flintlock, both does, I did pass on a pretty good 8 point...I buy pillow ticking from Walmart for patches, I use SnoSeal to lube them, I make my own round balls with lead that my dentist gives me, I buy Goex from the local distributor for $11.55 a pound, the flints I use I bought 50 or so from Vernon Davis...Oh yea, I made my .54 caliber flintlock, not from a kit, but from selected parts, its an early Lancaster, took me 2 years to make it, finished it in 1990...Heck, they put me on TV, what am I going to promote....

When I need to thin the doe population, I use a Ruger M-77 in .243, that I bought new in 1980, I did replace the Bushnell ScopeChief after 15 years or so and put a Leupold on...I buy a case of CoreLokts every 2-3 years or so and I'm good to go...

Something that I think is comical, I have muzzleloader books from the '70s...One guy in particular talks about how inefficient a killer the round ball is....Guess what he was promoting in the '70s...Before inlines, etc...His picture is in a few of my books several times...Back then he talked about the "romance" of muzzleloader hunting and how everyone should experience getting close to an animal and making the shot...Now he says the round ball wounds too many deer...I don't care how he kills his deer, he can run over them with a pickup as far as I'm concerned...But don't think I'm going to believe all the BS he spreads...

Don't sell the round ball short, its a very efficient killer within the ranges that most hunterskill deer with open sights.

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

Yes, they make their living by hunting, writing articles about hunting or promoting hunting, they have a little niche. I like to understand a person's logic as to why they believe/shoot they way they do. Lets take SnoSeal, cause I never heard of anyone using that as a lube, but you do, and I am sure you have logic for why you use it. Why do you? I use CoreLokts also for my .30-06 because they are inexpensive, easily available, accurate and do the jobin my 35 year old Remington 760. Thanks for your post. I don't sell the RB short, they have their place and purpose, just know their limitations.
Chap Gleason

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

As for the bumble bee not being able to fly,it was on the Discovery channel and Aviation Engineers [experts in flight design]were dumbfounded.The body mass and wing shape were incompatable to flight.Someone forgot to tell the bee.I was being respectfull in not mentioning Catholic Church and Galileo in the same sentance.Stone age intelligence doesn;t count.About 10 years ago the Vatican made a lame half hearted apology that they may wrong in imprisoning him.[without admitting guilt]Just succeded in making themselves look even more foolish.I am also a born again Christian.....................Harold

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

Do a Google search and see/buy the tract/publication "INCREDIBLE CREATURES THAT DEFY EVOLUTION" for a God centereddiscussion of the flight of the bumblebee.I forget who published it, but it is great. I recall the thing on Galileo, at least they said something. Amen that you are a born again Christian, so am I. Chap Gleason

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

I just started using SonSeal because I had it on hand, and its mainly beeswax, which is what some used to use...Heck, I have used a ton of different things in the past and one day plan to try several different patch lubes to see if there is any difference in accuracy or ease of loading...That said, I've used SnoSeal since the '70s and it works.

RE: Rifle Bullets for the Hunter A Definitive Study
 

Excellent, didn't know it was made from bees wax. That makes sense then since it would be a non-petroleum based lube. Thanks Chap