And there might evenbe otherinteresting possibilities...one could be having no restrictions at all...really not too far fetched...the Wildlife Dept's do their math and forecasting...establisha number of hunting days & tags for"firearms seasons", and a hunter uses whatever he/she prefers.

I think the fundamentalissue that should bedecided is whether or not states should continue topreserve special hunting seasons for older technology equipment as an acknowledgement to our hertiage so to speak...ie: bowhunting & traditional MLs.

Or...decide they don't even want to pretend to do that, and simply deal withwildlife management harvest targets, and open the seasons up to all firearms.

I think unless and until that question is answered there will be this constant set of different views about what constitutesmuzzleloading.
I happen to have an opinion and I am honest in stating it that I think there should be an acknowledgement of the old ways...that's just me.

First muzzleloader I ever owned was a .50cal Knight MK-85, big Leupold 3.5x10x50 scope...killed deer with it for two years just like my Remington 700's...realixzed there was no challenge to it any different than those 700's...beganstudyingabout real black powder and muzzleloading as it existed back during the early American muzzleloading era,sold my Knight outfit and have been going backwards in technology for the past 15 years.

Nice shooting! The Renegade is a good rifle.

One thing that some here keep missing is that SCOPES, 209 PRIMERS and CLOSED IGNITIONS NEVER WERE LEGAL IN IDAHO, NEVER!!! That being said I ask where is the performance difference between the once legal inlines and sidelock guns???? The answer, There is no difference. Is there a difference as to the depenability of the two styles of gun, NO. I have had numerous mechanical failiers with inlines, cap failiers, snow in the bore turning to water and soaking the powder, snow in the action melting then freezing locking up the hammer. The channel the hammer sits in on an inline makes a great place for water to collect, and if it gets deep enough it can soak the nipple and primer, a problem a sidelock will never have because the nipple sits high and dry.

Has anyone noticed that T/C, Traditions, Lyman and RMC Sports offer flintlock guns capable of 150 grain powder charges, have fast twist "sabot" barrels, plastic stocks, composite stocks, laminated stocks, stainless steel barrels and actions. Same goes for sidelock guns too, the manufacturers are building what the public wants.

Goatbrother, the obvious lesson in this thread (aside from SL having a great shooting Renegade) is that one should never let facts interfere with opinion. Unlike others, I sense no victory in a fundamentally unfounded and mostly arbitrary ruling that takes away privileges of my hunting friends. There are some here that do see victory in that regard andpost news of such as a victory proclamation on multiple internet forums. I wouldsuggest such persons, whether traditional-mindedor otherwise, are self-consumed andonly wish to eliminate other hunters from the sport they somehow feel is theirs and theirs alone.

goatbrother

Exactly my point so why do the commissioneers think different - they are ill-informed. When it comes down to the facts the simple old 30-30 gives you more total advantages than the best ML - inluding the Savage.

UC

One excellent brief statement - I have packaged that and sent it to my commisioneer - thank you...

But,back to an original thought in this post... I did get an answer to myquestion about the blob of lube on the nose... but I am still a bit dumfounded as to why the 1/48 will apperently stabilize the 460 NE or the Bull Shop 460Nex. Ithas been my understanding that the 1/48 wouldnot stablilze long projectiles... With that understandingI was ready to order some 400 grain Bull Shops...

Well, from left to right, that is my inline, my son's inline and my dad's inline. Or whatever I should call them, because inlines all have scopes according to you. Not one of these guns has EVER worn a scope. Maybe you and your buddies all have your definition of what an inline is, but don't go spouting around that the majority of people have the same definition.

I imagine that you hate the fact that, 1) they are stainless, and 2) they have synthetic stocks. Probably a few other things you don't like, but I really don't care. Say what you will, but in NO WAY do these rifles boarderline centerfire performance.

But yea, nice shooting Mike. Look forward to seeing you Friday. You better get all those guns cleaned up. Matt is going to want to see them ALL!!!!!

I don't doubt that UC is smart enough to provide arguements that provoke and he is definitely old enough to have a history. Personally, I don't know of the history you claim about myself. Me.........I just have a reading & comprehension problem, no doubt.

Due to the changeing of the rules in Idaho a questionare was handed out at a presidents day sporting clays shoot at the local sportsman culb.
Of the 210 questionares filled out 185 persons hunted Michigans ML season. The inline was 5 to 1 the ML of choice of the forms filled out. And forming a state ML club the responce was 94% for.
And the last question was about the sudden rule change in Idaho. Many felt the state put the shaft to the dealers who are holding many inlines in Inventory and the state should buy those inventory. Many felt the no phase out was with out reguard to the people who lived there.
And yes there were 98 persons who never knew about the Idahorule change.

Funny I had never given a thought to all the dealers who are left holding the bag.

Al

I noticed one of the auction sites (only looking not buying), muzzleloaders (inlines) being offered for sale from an Idaho resident. His reason for selling; the rifle is now illegal to hunt with and of no use to me. What a shame. It's somewhat apparent he did not take pleasure is a simple trip to the range, or rock quarry for a Saturday afternoon of fun. Instead he chose to dump the whole works. But I can understand his reasoning. Perhaps all he wanted was some quiet time in the woods without lots of other hunters. I can understand that.

Still,you have a good point Alleyyooper I never considered... I never thought of all the stores. I bought my Ultra Mag from a Sportsmans Warehouse in Idaho. Think of some of the large chain stores with now hundreds, perhaps thousands of rifles that are really no longer a saleable item.

I am sliding off the main point of the thread, and that being Sabotloader shooting a Renegade with 1:48 twist and getting good results with conicals. I do not have any .54 caliber conicals around anymore. I do have plenty of .50 caliber, so maybe we will see how well they do out of a 1:48 Hawkins flintlock. Might be a good reason to get out on the range.

cayugad& yooper

I provided my local commisioner with those same thoughts on the economic problems that the new regulations that they are proposing to implement. Economy always trump people... I was in the Balck Sheep in CDL, they had 11 Idaho legal inlines on dsiplay and the counterman said numerous relacements in the store room - not to mention the sabots and other inline supplies in the isles.. very few conicals and an assortment of round balls. If this proposal flies, and from what I am hearing now, it is in serious jeporady, it will certainly come down next year. --- now enough with the Idaho stuff - we will know by the end of the week.

Dave i would really like to know your results with the longer concicals in one of your 1/48's. It seems to me when I was talking to Dave Stevens (No Excuses) he was not to excited about promising me great results from the 1/48, but from the 1/28 he was excited to tell me that they would shoot great. As you know this conical thing is a new thing to me, but most of the reading I have done always indicates short ptojectiles for a 1/48 - that is why I am even doing the experimenting.

I am headed to Strychnine this morning - going to shoot the Renegade again @ clay pigeons, but I am also taking my old 1894 Winchester 30-30 along and sight it in - my hunting partner got his grand dads old Marlin 30-30 in an estate deal and he wants to do some 30-30 whitetail hunting this year also - so I guess i want to get mine ready also, do not want to him to be able to say he did something in the hunting field I didn't...