bigcountry

If you e-mail Del Ramsey @ mmp and ask the same question I am sure he will confirm for you in most instances...

In the old days of older plastic sabots and the days when the lands and grooves of the bore were deep - or if you still have a gun with deep grooves you would be correct, but since everyone went to the shallow grooves and the advent of polymere which will conform easily to those grooves - loading is an easy task...

TC Super Glides sabots (actually contracted to and made by MMP) are areally good example of this new technology. I have not used them myself but they were built for TC to go down their barrels easily...

with regards to the MMP sabot, what it the diameter for the black colored sabot?

oldrookie

There are currently three different sized black (45/50 cal) sabots.. The HPH-12, the thickest, HPH-24, mid range, and the HPH-3p-EZ, which is the thinnest...

This is from the www.mmpsabots.com

Interesting. I have some of the cheap Kight 310 gr. w/black sabots. They are so hard to load, I won't use them. Naturally the package does not give the diameters of bullet or sabot. I measured the bullet at .452. I then measured a pistol round (230 gr 44cal) at .433. When I dropped the pistol round into the Knight sabot it's a nice easy fit. I'm definitely going to give them a try. I know the risk of the bullet leaving the sabot and becomming an obstruction. Any idea how I can determine which of the black sabots I'm using?

yeoman

Actually that really is not that difficult...

What rifle, how old is it, what caliber is the bore, and what size bullet do you want to shoot (44 cal or 45 cal)? What brand/make sabots do you have now that are not working... have you ever had any that did work well for you.

I can give you a good idea - you would not believe the size of my sabot collection...

The ultimate answer might lie with Connie at MMP Sabots she catalogs what sabot fits what rifle with bullet for each of their sabots...

I can even send you a sample of different kinds and sizes, I have done that in the past on a few occasions... Lot of people are not located near a place they can run down town and get a sample..

That's a nice offer Sabotloader. The rifle is the 30 year old CVA mountain rifle, a sidelock 50 caliber. I've always been a heavy conical guy puching paper at 50 yds., satisfied to put 6/6 in 6 inches then go find a big whitetail, or not. I blame you and many others here for creating the fantasy of achieving similar results at 100 yards and you'll never be forgiven. But I can taste it. So far, the 270 Sabertooth with 80 RS looks like it's going to get there. If I could find a bullet/sabot combo almost as easy to load as the Sabertooth, then maybe I could find a 300 gr. bullet that will get there etc, etc. I doubt Connie would have data for this weapon, you think?

yeoman

Oh! you might be surprised... CVA's have been around a long time and there are plenty of people out there with them...

Here are a couple of assumptions... it is 1/48 twist? and I am thinking it will have the deep lands and grooves... if you look down the barrel with a bore light at the lands and the grooves they will be very prominent to the point that you might think it would be easy to hook a fingernail onthe lands... the newer rifles have suchshallow land and groove you would wonder if they will really work...

Do you have some 300 grain .452 bullets? hornady's, sierra anything...
I have for years shot 300 grain bullets in HPH-24 sabots from my Hawkens and Renegades...

The working principle of the sabertooth/powerbelt is the bullet is undersized and open ignition the force of the pressure will cause the bullet to swell to the lands and grooves....

I had such a gun CVA and I did shoot sabots in it and it did very well. A freind of mine has an older CVA 54 cal and he is easily loading TC mag sabots and 300 grain speers.

Following this with a PM....

CVA tells me (based on the age of the gun) I have a 1:66 but my "test" suggests 1:48. I do have a bore light and it does have deep lands and grooves. I try the "variety pack" and report back.

yeoman

if it is a 1/66 we are in trouble trying to shoot almost any bullet... Have you done the ram rod test? insert a snug patch on jag to the bottom of the barrel - mark the rod at the top of the barrel for depth - mark the rod for revolutions - pull it out allowind the rod to turn one full revolution measure the distance - do the math...

Trouble is with a gun that old it probably should be a 1/66...

I did do the ramrod test. A half a dozen ups and downs and the average was a half turn in 26-27 inches. Given that would be a twist of 1:52-54, an odd result.I figured there was probably some slippage since pressure was being applied to the ramrod creating resistance and actual rotation was likely faster not slower. That's why I thought 1:48. I suppose if I had a hard object which would span groove to groove (maybe a dime?) I could bed that in a dowel and get a more precise reading.