Newbie - shooting conicals......

Not that I want to but the State of Idaho has declared we will shoot conicals from a pivoting hammer only. The rest of the rules almost confines you solely to flint locks or percussion guns.

I recieved an order of 460NE last week from Dave Stevens last week and I have been really wanting to get out and shoot these heavy weights. We have had lousy weather since I got them and have not been able to get out. Well taday enough was enough - I went to Strychinine and decided to shoot no mater what... This was my first experiance shooting conicals by myself on my own - I had shot a few years and years ago but nothing you can call experiance. But listening to Cayugad, UC, and shooting with Casecadedad - I felt I could handle it alright.

My mission today was to shoot through the chrono and find out what velocity I moght be shooting... I am a velocity person - I want velocity, but I knew I was not going to get anything like I get with sabots and copper clad bullets. For my own piece of mind I need to know. Another thing that worried me was loading them.... I don't think I have ever used a short starter - in fact it took me awhile to even find one.

Anyway arrived at the gravel pile set up the table and bags, the chrono, and the target - in the snow and while it was snowing. Next project load the Hawken, I decided to start @ 80 grains first (T7-3f) - dropped the charge, then inserted a .125 shot card, thought that might be a little difficult to keep it flat, piece of cake, pushed it down on the powder, then picked up a goowy 460 placed it in the barrel, used the short starter to start it, the the short ram rod in the starter. Heck it was easy - it went down easier than a lot of sabots... never used the short starter after that, placed the shot card - thumbed it down flush - insterted the 460 thumbed it down about halfway - set the range rod on, (by the way the spin jag fit the bullet perfectly) pushed it and the card down together - piece of cake....

First shot (labeled #1 - dang set trigger) was not good and had nothing to do with the bullet or charge. 2-3 and four followed. I actually was not to disappointed in the final three - I am not the best open sight shooter in the world, and I was more concerned with getting the bullet through the chrono than anything else. 80 grains and the 460 - did provide a decent recoil - not as bad as it could have been but I was shooting with just 2 "T" shirts on for padding and the Hawken does not have the best recoil pad in the world. I was surprised with the velocity - I should say I was really happy and surprisedwith the 1500 fps second range.

Then of the heck of it, I thought I would try 70 grains just to check the velocity difference. A lot of things went into those last three shots.... I was much more comfortable shooting, I was figuring out the open sights again, and I was a whole lot more confident in the bullets. Anyway the last three were really great.

I have not given up on 80 grains yet - but the 70 grain thing looks awful good. I know I do want to change the rear Williams sight from from a bump and guess sight to a TC adjustable sight. I that will help my comfort level also. And right now, because of the weight of the bullet I think I am going to do the Cayugad thing and sight in @ 75 yards and try to use the placement of the front sight blade in the rear sight for longer shots whenthey are necessary.

I have not ran a ballistic chart on the bullet yet that will be my next project. But I think if I can learn how to shoot it to 100+ yards it should have the energy to stop an elk or awhitetail.

Sabot loader those velocity readings are most impressive. I would have never guessed the 80 gr of Triple Se7en would have had that kind of speed. I was always running them at 1350 fps. Thanks for the new information. You made my White Ultra Mag smile big time.

Be sure and try them without wads, and maybe steal some cornmeal from the kitchen and try that too. 20 grains is plenty of cornmeal. 5, 6, & 7 look mighty fine to me. Good shooting.

good shootin. id take either group. and that sucker is packin a PUNCH. wow. 1500fps...460gr bullet..wow.

if for no other reason im glad my gun hates conicals is the recoil. i shot maxis i think 350gr or somethng. 80 or 90gr of BP..man did that thing HURT. it wasnt sharp like a centerfire hit. it was a solid punch and push and hang on tight or the brass buttplate will bust you in the mouth kinda kick. im not recoil sensative either. i just got tired of shooting them big ole hunks of lead. i still wanna try some conicals with cornmeal and bore buttons. theres no reason everyones 1:48 shoots conicals and mine wont. ive shot 4 or 5 conicals and 100 diffrent powder combos and cant get it to satisfy me. id love to hunt with them. them big ole suckers will knock the snot out of anything it hits!

kills on one end..cripples on the other!

cayugad

OK help, what is the purpose of the corn meal? The only reasons I was using the wad is to protect the bottom of the lead bullet from the heat of the 3f load and to prevent the lubricant from the bullet contaminating any of the powder, and I was thinking of this more on the lines of hunting in warmer weather and the fact the gun may stay loaded for long periods of time.

I have to say I was surprised by the velocities... and this chrono has been very consitent and accurate in the past. It was placed 10' off the muzzle.

sabotloader, the only way I can get some guns like my Omega to shoot conicals good is by using cornmeal we dont know exactly why just that it works. Lee

The cornmeal acts as a buffer like the wad. It also seems to clean the barrel a little at the same time. My White shot well with cornmeal. My Knight does not. So, since you're a old hand with this sport I am sure you will figure out the best kind of load...

Although the figures are excellent. I ran some numbers and the energy is amazing.

cayugad

Not really! when it comes to shooting conicals... I have a lot of worries, the contamination thing, lead fouling in the barrel, trajectory, & etc...

I just asked Terry, about corn meal - not sounding like she has any - at least she knows what it is - I don't... So then the next question - if you are using speed loaders in the field - how do assure the corn meal stays on top of the powder? or do you have to load from 2 different containers?

I just ran the ballistics on Barnes - gees! this might not be that bad at all from aHawken/Renegade- I know I have more faith in the 460 than I do most PB's. The Renegade NE's are 535 grain 54's - can not even imagine that one... it is like you were going after elephants or something. I would like to "myth busters" do a impact test on that one...

here is the ballistic chart.... Kinda neat... look at the 6" point blank range information - that is really interesting....

Big heavy conicals are great. You might try the roundball to.

So how do you like conicals vs. sabots so far?

Sharp Shooter

I do NOT want to hurt anybodies feeling, but given a choice I would shoot fast, flat, sabots all day. There is a reason that bullet manufactures, people, and guns moved from all lead bullets to copper jacketed bullets.

But in the same breath it was kinda fun shooting them today....

Hey Mike,

Thats awesome! I appreciate the T7 chrony numbers, I just bought a pound about a month ago and your data will be useful. I am very impressed with2000 ft-lbs at the muzzle. 777 is very energetic. 70 grains with the 460 NE will take whatever you plan tohunt.

I know you are dissappointed in the loss of sabots in Idaho ML season, but this will definitely spice up your life and add new dimension to the sport for you. For maximum point blank shooting, 1/10 the muzzle velocity is a pretty good rule of thumb.For maximum PBR, I like to be a little higher than 3" at the top of the arc so that the PBR range limit isn't right at 3" low. The top of the arc is alot closer than the end of the useful PBR, it can be trusted more, and more easily adusted to. You will get it all worked out. Great to hear your first outing was successful.