RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

Idaho did have a survey online awhile back and it was tilted to favor
the trads' basically saying do you want to hunt with a trad.
or do you want to wait several years to hunt (less tags).
I agree its backwards but once its changed it will be hard to bring back.
Redclub

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

Cabella's rolling block used to be available in #11. The T/C scout is #11 primed and you can sometimes find one. Kahnke has an exposed hammer and primer but I don't know what primer they use. Marksbury guns had an exposed hammer and primer also but I don't know the primer and I know they are out of buisiness.

Of course this may all be moot. If they specify the actionas needing to be a sidelocknone of these will work but then neither would an Underhammer.

I tell you what I find interesting. Idaho already had some of the most restrictive regs and has now made them more restrictive. They had already restricted guns to open sights only and changing things to sidelock only will not make any real difference in the kill rates. The open sights made both inlines and sidelocks equal in the range category. Limiting guns to percussion cap or flint already reduced the ignition reliability of the guns.

It sounds like the extremists in Idaho pushed this through. There's a guy on a few other forums from Idaho who had been hinting that change was in the works for a few months. Guess this is what he meant.

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

Thisnew projectwill ultimately give you hours of enjoyment, I suspect, and also hope.

Not hardly, i think. It is to allow PRB at .490, .530, .570 etc. I would bet the PB's are still allowed and that they are greater than .490 in Diameter.

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

Pglasgow

Well if powerbelts are still legal - I did not do the math so you and your math mind are probably correct, if so I really am confused in what the actually accomplished, Other than get rid of semi modern inlines & sabots- the modern inlines were never legal anyway.

If powerbelts or equivalent are still legal - I really do not see the point... A powerbelt in my Hawken with the Green Mountain barrel will do just about any thing my non-scoped Remingtons, White,or A&H will do at the same ranges. The projectile will not be as efficient as Noslers/shockwaves and etc, but none-the-less the target of this was to move inlines out...

Oh well! Idaho and politics are like that - I wonder what state will be next - you know Idaho is a TREND setter....

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

Well I can see this happening in a lot of States where thehard core Traditional shooters are putting pressure on government officials to bring back "their" idea of a primitive muzzleloader season.

Actually many of the inline rifles did bring a lot of this on themselves, with new designs and such making them almost water proof. And their ability to shoot sabots with some impressive accuracy. To make matters worse they make claims of outstanding accuracy. Then on TV, top paid celebrity hunters are shooting 200+ yards making impressive kills with their sabots and 150 grains of powder. Feed all of this hype to people running fish and game, and to law makers that would not know a muzzle loader if it shot them in the you know where, and they are bound to make some stupid decisions.

Wisconsin allows anything you want to hunt with as long as it loads from the muzzle. They do not allow scopes. That single thing, the banning of scopes, while maybe not fair to the vision impaired (and I understand that) does level the playing field for most all rifles and hunters. As much as I shoot, there is no rifle with out a scope, better then any other one, for long range accuracy. The best open sighted rifle I own is a traditional rifle in .58 caliber with a GMB on it. I throw a 110 grains of Goex 2f powder and a 284 grain roundball. That is the kind of rifle I would be getting, if I lived in Idaho.

I do think that Idaho, if claiming they were concerned about wounded and injured animals from the people shooting modern muzzleloaders as they say, "ain't seen nothing yet." You will see an influx of people getting traditional rifles, loading conicals and round ball, still taking shots they are not skilled enough to make, or ballistically should not be making. All you will see is a State, ending up with bullet ridden animals all over the place. Another thing you will see in the State is many more opportunities for the local people to hunt with muzzleloaders as the non residentout of state hunters, now being unable to hunt with modern muzzleloaders, will instead book hunts for more friendly States you might say. Guides, can say good by to some nice fat fees, restaurants, motels, gas stations, etc can also close up early during muzzleloader season. Believe me, this will impact some local economies.

Traditional hunters are forming up into political voting groups and making their voice heard. If people with modern inline rifles want to do preserve their right to hunt with muzzleloaders they might very well have to do the same and not sit back and expect others to do the work for them.

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

Mike, I don't know for a fact that PB's are greater than .490. I just figure that they are between .495 and .500. If I owned Powerbelt company, I would see to it that there are some Idaho legal powerbelts for Idaho residents. I'd package them ".495! Legal for Idaho!"

The PB's are no where close, in equivalent weights, to saboted projectiles when it comes to resistance to wind deflection. This will drastically reduce the range of responsible, concientious hunters. Those wanting long range accuracy in less than pristine conditions will have to go with the heavier 400+ conicals and deal with elevation trajectory. Elevation is easier to deal with than windage.

As far as TREND's,that may be the case. I've considered this already in Colorado. I'm done collecting inlines, provideI find myself satisfied 6 mo. from now with what I own. It's gonna be traditionals next. INEED :eek:a flinter in 58 cal and maybe a caplock in .58or .54for shooting roundball, and Oh, don't I need some extra fast twist barrels for conicals?

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

My brother was telling me that ML season in used to be throughout the whole month of September, basically, concurrent with bow. At that time I suspect that it was a traditional hunt without scopes and the like. This gave ML hunters access to elk during the peak of rut in the latter half of september. Then the rules were changed, particular the season dates, I suspect to accommodate inline hunters. The idea, let them use inlines and scopes and sabots but only give them a week prior to the rut.

I am sure alot of traditional hunters were outraged by that trend. Now they have taken the scopes and sabots away and we still get the same season a week before the rut really begins. Personally, to get the last two weeks of september, I would agree to go with flinters and roundball.

I don't really think this is a story of inliners and traditionalists. This is more of story of intense demand for hunting opportunity in the West for limited resources of game. It is the Game Department's job to maximize opportunity (# of licenses) to participate in hunting while harvesting a sustainable population. We have to roll with the punches when rules change, and keep smiling. We are so fortunate to live in a country where the government is actually actively involved in encouraging gun ownership and outdoor hunting sports.

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

i think there should be 2 muzzleloading season, ones for traditional's, roundball,conicals, cap lock, flintlock exe. open sights, give these guys thebetter part of the season and then have later season for the inline guys who want to use sabots,pellets,scopes exe. Any of us who have hunted with flintlock or sidelock know the guys with the inlines have a big upper hand. And there is a big difference when you are carrying a flintlock,caplock VS inline.

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

I assume you have seperate muzzleloading season by itself. Can you use the in-lines during gun season? Any limitations on in-lines during gun season? ie scopes sabots etc? Just curious what % of hunters out here did this affect?

RE: Idaho - Has changed ML rules
 

How about ONE season and hunt with what you wish? Wouldn't PBs be excluded by the all-lead requirement?

In any case, their motivation has more to do with revenue than any right thinking or concern for any wildlife population.

Maybe next they'll specify required twist rates, patch material, do a "what's in your heart" test, and check penis length.


http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/SportRiflePGBlackStock.JPG Would look great in some good wood - black plastic looks pretty bad IMHO.