Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock - Resolved
 

I thought I would start a new thread on this topic so everyone could follow the process of me dealing with CVA Customer Service and getting it replaced. The gun is a CVA Kodiak MagnumBlue/Mossy Oak Obsession Synthetic stock. The gun was bought on 23 Dec 06. It has been to the range two times and had less than 20 rounds fired through it. Thefractures were dicovered on 8 Jan 07 at 9:30pm. Here are pictures of what I found-

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I called CVA Customer Service (770-449-4687) on 9 Jan 07at 8:55am. I was on hold for 5 minutes before I spoke to Eric. I told him of my problem and he sounded pretty shocked. He asked me how I found them, how many there were, where they were, how many rounds I have fired,and if I mounted a tripid/bipod. I answered the questions and he told me that he would be sending me a shipping label so I could return it at no cost to me. I asked him how long he thought this process would take before I received my new stock and told me approx. 3 weeks. I asked him if there was any way he could send me a stock out right away and then I would return this one. He agreed and said a stock would be shipped out on 10 Jan 07.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Keep us posted. By the way, what kind of powder charges and projectiles were you shooting? Also if you checked the stock prior to shooting, did you notice anything different? How was the accuracy of the rifle? Sorry to hear of trouble like this with a new rifle. I am sure you will be happy with the replacement stock...

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

That's downright awesome. Better than I would have ever expected actually. Keep us updated.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I didn't take the stock off before I shot it. This was taken off last night for a photo op for some of the other guys to compare the Kodiak and Omega stocks. I shot 100gr T7 pellets and 250gr Shockwaves. I will let you guys know if/how things changes with the new stock. It shot very accurately at 50 and 75 yrds with open sights. Even with the cracks in the stock it didn't flex any at all.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

That sounds ridiculous. How could that happen? Hope itgoes well. You should have gotten the Omega:D[8D]jk

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

omegas are having the same issue outdoorslover. sabotloader had his stock on his omega crack around the lugs. Have you taken yours out of the stock yet? Just figured i'd ask, i know i went and checked mine lol.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I have an Omega.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Of course I've taken mine off of the stock. Probably 20 times. My comment was purely humorous--apparently not to you though.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

It has been 10 days since the stock wasgoingto ship out and I still have not received it. I called CVA Customer Service (770-449-4687) on 19 Jan 07at 9:15am. I spokewith Eric and asked him if he had any shipping information on the stock. He informed me that it is scheduled for delivery on Monday, January 22, 2007. I asked him why it was taking so long to arrive and he told me he wasn't sure. I left it at that and hopefully I get it on Monday. I will post an update when it arrives. Hopefully the extended delivery time is just because of the weather everyone has been having.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

While I have had excellent customer service from BPI I too, had to wait to normally get my items returned. Other then that it was as promised. I am sure the stock will arrive and be just what you need.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

probably due to the storms we've had the past month. Im still waiting for packages that were shipped out Dec 18th!

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Well I was wondering how that was going. Waiting stinks[>:]. But at least you didn't have to ship your original back. Too bad you didn't request a tracking number so that you could track the shipment. Just one more weekend!? Good luck and keep us posted.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

As promised by Eric at BPI I received my new stock today at 3:35pm. The stock came ina box inside a box both sealed with security tape. I also received aprepaid return shipping label so this transaction didn't cost me a thing. I have my Kodiak back together and can't wait to take it to the range, hopefully this weekend. I would have to give Customer Service at CVA/BPI an A+ for this situation. I have 100% confidence in the warranty behind my CVA Kodiak. If I ever have a problem with my T/C Omega I hope the service goes this smooth and good.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I am glad to read that. Iam also new ownerCVA Kodiak (my first) and am happy to know that CVA serviced your warranty as they did. Thanks for posting your experience.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Now try not to crack this one! jeeez. :D

lol just kiddin

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Well I guessthis will bethe true test of BPI/CVA Customer Service. I took the Kodiak along to the range today to shoot a few shots through it while I was working up a 100 yd load for my other gun. I shot only 3 rounds with the Kodiak- 250gr Shockwaves with 85gr of Pyrodex. Oh and by the way it was way off the markfrom where it was shooting before. I guess replacing the stock really affected its performance. Took it apart tonight for cleaning and inspection and to my surprise there are already 3 cracks developing in the bulkheads for the lugsin the stock. I guess my next step it to just send the whole gun back to them and let them figure it out. Iam thinkingabout another trip to the range with 5-7 more shots through itto see if the cracks open up like before. Here are the pics-

Front lug - Both


Front lug- Front


Front lug- Back


Back lug- Back

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

MO Archer,

This is disheartening news. Particularly because I'd bet it was caused again by tightening the lug screws and I'm certain you were careful and did not over tighten. I removed my barrel again to inspect mine. Lo and behold, there is a fine crack bothin front of and behind the muzzle side lug. They don't go very deep, but I suspect that they may deepen with time.

I have yet to shoot my kodiak pro, (driving me crazy), but I will, just as soon as the range re-opens. We've got a spell of warm weather which is supposed to end tomorrow, but if tomorrow doesn't drop too much precip, it is possible that I may be out to the range by or on next weekend.

For others who own Kodiaks I would be very interested in your comments on your stocks because I have the sense this is something which is common. Like me, Zugunruhe, also bought a SS Kodiak Pro when the Apex run out. If you would, check your stock and comment.

As for me, I don't think I'm gonna go through thescenario of replacing my stock, simply because I figure that a new one will alsodevelop cracks.As I inspected the stock again, it just seems to me that there is just a whole lot ofstock structure behind the lugs and thatit will support the heavy conical recoil I'm going to putto her.I don't think the part that iscracking supports much recoil at all, the structure along the sides of the stock is supporting the lion's share. The cracks are developing, I think, from stress related to spreading the stock as the barrel is bedded with the lug screw.Personally, I think I will reinforce those pockets behind thelugs withJ-B Weld (like I did the Apex) and then just report how the cracks develop and worsen if they do.

MO Archer, if you can't livewith those cracks, I think I'd look into returning therifle. Cuz, even ifCVA is willing to trade you stocks every two weeks, I think they willeach and everyonedevelopcracks right there.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

It is definately happening when it is fired. I put the stock on several timessince I received itbefore I fired it, each time I got them a little tighter and each time I took it back apart to inspect it and there were no cracks. Maybe the stress of firing it and the spread of the barrel is too much. I am not sure. I have pretty much made up my mind to take it to the range and shoot more rounds through it. I will take it apart every 5 rounds and inspect the cracks and take pictures until I feel that it is no longer safe to shoot. Not sure what CVA will be willing to do about it. I am sure I can make the stock work as you are, but I didn't buy a new gun to have to make it work. I too would like to hear from everyone that owns this gun and see just how many have the cracks and how bad they actually are. What kind of stock do you have Pglasgow?

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

One thing occurs to me, they may allow you to trade this stock up for the laminate stock with you paying the difference between their costs. You shouldn't have problems with the laminate stock.

I have the black synthetic stock. Evaluating the design, here is my 2 cents. The design begs for the cracks right where they appear. Look at the pockets behind the lugs. That structure makes the stock ridgid and forces the strain of spreading the stock to be concetrated right smack dab in the center. Ironically, the feature I liked so much about the stock, the support on each side, funnels spreadingstresses to the center,I think. That makes sense to me anyway. If you look at your Omega stock, its design allows this kind of stress to be distributed throughout the whole of the bottom of the stock.

Without testing I couldn't know,but for receiving recoil, Ilike the design of theKodiak better than the Omega hands down because there is so much more there to receive it, (again, I think the design calls for receiving recoil primarily along the sides of the stock, where the Omega receives it primarily on the bottom of the stock). For preventing those cracks, Omega wins hands down. As I own the rifle,I'll continue reporting my impressionsand if that changes, I'll definitely let everyone know.

Added:

It occurs to me that firing will cause additional spreading of the stock. Expanded by breech gas, the barrel itself would provide a short but sharp spreading moment to each side of the stockwhere load bearing of themomentisfocused right where the cracks develop. I would definitely agree that firing, though notrecoil,contributed to the cracks.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I checked my x150 again and after firing 40 rounds with the 385 and 350 grain bullets theres nothing different. No cracks, scratchs or anything.
Mo archer, im thinking that theres a space between the stock and barrel lug and when its torqued down, the plastic flares and cracks it and when its shot, those cracks open more than more. Do not shoot it anymore, call cva and get a new stock, and in the mean time, im gonna run out to the shop and cut you 4 or 5 shims to put under the barrel legs on that kodiak's new stock, when it comes in. If its flaring like i think, it will leave a deep impression in the brass shims and then we can tackle this problem for sure. If the next stock does it, have them replace it with an optima. Or better yet, to solve your problem once and forall, a winchester x-150 lol. 4 years with this rifle and zero problems.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

i made up those shims today by looking at the pics, i also left them over sized to cut down and trim to fit. You'll just have to punch the holes, i dont know what size your lug screws are. Also found that Impactguns is selling the blue/black winchester apex for $198, you may want to get your money back and pick one of those up instead. But if you'd like to try the shims PM me with your address and i'll send them.
Jon

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Wow!! Thanks for your concern and effort Jon. I am not quite sure what I am going to do yet until I talk to Eric again. I was thinking it would be sweet to try to maybe get a traditional percusion gun out of them on this deal if they get tired of sending me stocks. Any recommendations? I love the Kodiak and how it shoots, but if is gonna keep having stock problems I will definately see what they are willing to do. I PMed you my info for sending the shims- Thanks again!! I will wait to get them fitted before I shoot it again and see if it helps the issue. Right now the cracks are still pretty small and maybe the shims will stop it from cracking further so I will have more input on the issue for Eric at BPI. One thing that keeps coming to mind is if I am having these issues and no one else is, I wonder if there is something different about the lugs on my barrell? Is possible they are too short? Can someone out there with a Kodiak post the measurementsof your lugs so I can compare them with mine?

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

MO Archer,

My lugs are right at 13/16" from the bottom of the lug to the bottom of the barrel. Floating the barrel with take away all the spreading moments, so shimming the lugs could, atleast in theory,eliminate the problem with those cracks.

I definitely can understand your consternation with them as I am not happy about mine. I'm convinced this is a common occurance and that you are not singled out. I would be surprised this could be resolved (go away altogether) with a new stock unless the barrel is floated or you go to a woodlaminate stock. I did recently float my Apex barrel by shimming. Not that it is the best shimming material, but I used plastic cut from a coffee can lid.AndI did bed the lugs first.

As far as traditional rifle in trade, good luck with that. Be sure to let us knowif it works.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

No problem! Just trying to help you get the problem solved.

Im not sure if CVA carries these or not BUT i'd go with this, im actually itching to get one once i have the money.
http://www.possibleshop.com/cva-rifles.htm The rifle for $260! Sweet lookin rifle.

Or if you can get your money back, go with this one, Phil likes this one a lot :D.. http://www.impactguns.com/store/043125080007.html

OOOORRR: http://www.impactguns.com/store/043125080021.html
I'd lean more to the camo/ss. For some reason the winchesters seem to better built than the cva's.
Or another option, and the rifle i use is the x-150 from winchester, they sell them brand new or refurbished. I can also help you with floating the barrel and possibly new sights. Im down to 1" groups at 100 with open sights and will never get rid of this one.
impact carrys them in 45's but dont do that. Just give winchester a call at this number and ask for prices for the ss/camo or what ever is availible. The winchesters also come with a life time warranty VS cva's limited. Or thats atleast what the guy with winchester told me. 1-877-892-7544
Good luck and hope something works out for you.

Jon

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Frontier Gander,

Both my Apex and my Kodiak Pro have limited lifetime warranties.


Mo Archer,

I just shimmed my lugs on the Kodiak Pro. To completely float I would need to trim the stock edges a little. But the barrel is lifted off the stock which would allow the barrel to expand as it is fired without stressing the stock with spreading moments.

I'm kinda thinking I will leave the barrel floated on those lug shims and see if the cracks get worse when I shoot her.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Phil, i asked winchester about the warranty when i emailed about the powder charges and mark said it was a lifetime warranty, anything wears out or breaks, its getting replaced by winchester. Of course they have been good about replacing stuff free of charge for me.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I am right at 13/16" also. I am going to shim it and take it to the range again next Friday. I am going to shoot 3 rounds at a time and take the stock off and see how the cracks are doing. I think no matter what I am going to ask for a Laminate stock even trade since I have been through so much trouble. If he doesn't go for that one then it will get serious....

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

If you get a laminate stock, , , I want one too!:D:D Dang they are pretty. Good luck with that,letme know if it happens, cuz I want one too. I was going to get my brother to get some digital photosof mine and also the mods I did on the Apex. But he wasn't home. The shims I made were very easy. Just cut the lid with scissors to the shape of the bottom of the lug. I have a set of hole punchers and just took the 5/16" one and popped a hole in them.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Hey Jake, i got your shims all ready to go, i also went and taped 2 pieces of cardboard together and put the shims between it so they dont get bent out of shape. If those cracks dont open up and you feel comfortable with it, you can do what Phil did and JB weld those areas really good, But with a little twist and added strength, Go to walmart and in the automotive section they sell that fiberglass cloth, cut some of that stuff up really fine and mix it into the JB weld paste and that will allow it to bond better and strengthen it. I'd also scratch up the areas where it will be applied just to make sure it has a good rough bed to hold onto rather than a smooth surface. I'll get the envelope out monday morning.

Jon

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Right. I was just saying that the warranties as described in the manuals appeared the same to me.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I floated my barrel as soon asIsaw it didn't have a gap big enough to slide a dollar bill down to the first lug. I used a brass cabinet hinge I cut w/ a hack saw and filed to fit. The drilled and sanded. The thickness was .050. It worked fine for me. I agree w/ all the rest, I will bet CVA will give you a new lam stock. I certainlly would press hard for one....

SHills

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

I was looking at ways to strengthen it last night and have a couple of ideas. Thank you again Jon.

That is a great idea with the hinge, and it looks really good and strong. Thanks for the idea.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

SHills,

I notice that you have an Omega stock there. In the laminate stock, I think floating is fine, but one should be aware that the in the plastic stock (Mo Archer has one), one is lessening the support for the lugs to the extent that it my cause stock failure. Sabotloader can comment on this, but I do know he floated his barrel, and his stock failed, after returning his stock to T/C it was replaced. I do notice that Sabotloader advises against floating an Omega right now.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Pglasgow

It is my thoughtthat if your Omega, with the laminate stock, is shooting well and shoots well across all conditions (heat - cold & etc) I would really leave it alone. A supported barrel, a barrel laying in the barrel channel correctly is better than a floating barrel - my belief...

On the other hand the synthetic stock could use some help. The Omega synthetic stock will probably function fine 90% of the time as is. If you float the barrel in this application by shimming you need to consider reinforcing the recoil lug cups. Currently the synthetc stock I have supports the barrel very well and the will shoot 1.5" groups most times... it will all the time - but i don't all the time.

Floating solves two problems, lesser quality stocks that have very flexible forearm that may change your POI - "floating" will cure that problem. 2) a stock that does not not apply equal pressure tp the barrel along the length of the barrel will cause POI movment as the barrel warms and cools, and again "floating" will heal that problem,

It is my opinion that most high dollar custom guns will have a supported barrel not a floated barrel. In the old days when Winchster built great guns they took the time to fit the stock to the barreled action - today that is to expensive to be competive.

Hope this makes some sense...

mike

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

sabotloader

I'm confused. Do you think your omega stock would have failed anyway, even without having floated it?

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Pglasgow

I think the synthetic stock has a big chance of failing for a person that shoots the gun a lot. Those recoil lugs are a minimum in my mind.

In the case of the Omega and the synthetic stock the action should be screwed done snugly - if recoil mobement starts in the lug pockets - it will eventually cause a pocket failure - IMO. Floating will will not help this problem.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

sabotloader,

I tend to agree about plastic. With the heavy recoil I anticipate, I will no doubt strengthen the stock where it supports recoil. I personally think that the Kodiak would have been better designed without the litte U-shaped structures between the recoil supports. If they weren't there,they wouldn't crack.They are kindof likean appendix, i think. You don't need them andto make matter worse, they cango bad.

I have to admit, I hope MO Archer gets a laminate stock, I want one too.:) They are very pretty I think. And no, I don't want the thumbhole stock, i like the other one better.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Here is a photo ofmy Kodiak with its cracks the the one on the narrow piece is deeper. Right now the one on the thicker side is barely below the surface.

RE: Cracks in Kodiak Synthetic Stock
 

Well after almost 2 months of dealing with this it is finally over and I have to say I am very happy with the outcome. They gave me a thumb hole laminate stock at no charge and I didn't even have to pay for any of the shipping. BPI/CVA gets an A+ in my book for excellent customer service. Eric and Mark Hendricks over there really treated me right. Here it is....





I had them do a trigger job for me while it was there. They got it to just over 3lbs for me so I can't wait to get it out to the range.