RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

Mike,

Ask him if he used the same scope on all of them andwhat he did with the scope after the ordeal.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

OK. Now let me start by saying I'm not questioning Big 6X6's experience with Apex. Don't anyone make my comments out as such because I just won't go their. What I'm gonna do is show everyone the statistical probability of getting four consequetive unusable barrels.Let us begin by positing that oneout of every two barrels is unusable shooter of 8" groups at 100 yards. Thiswouldmean that the probability that he would get one of them on any given rifle is 50 % or .50. Everytime he gets one he has a 50 % chance of getting a bad barrel. To calculate the probability of getting 4 in row, wejust multiply the .50 probability 4 times.

Probability 4 in a row= .5 x .5 x .5 x .5 = .0625 = 6.25 %

So basically if half of the rifles have bad barrels there is onlyroughly a 6% chance of getting 4 in arow.What if 80 % of thebarrels are bad?Approximately a 40% chance. What if 30% of the barrels are bad?Less than 1%. 20 % of the barrels bad? Less than2 in a thousand. If 10% of the barrels are bad? Only one chance in 10,000. Now either a very large percentage of Apex barrels are bad or 6x6 was very, very unlucky.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

Hey it's the internet take it for what it is worth. You have to look at a lot of peoples experiences then make up your own mind I have read way more bad than good about CVA/BPI so I choose to stay away.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

Thats great. But you must admit it is useful to understand that the terrible thing that happened to 6x6 if very unlikely to happen to anyone else. He was just singled out. I'm not going to Las Vegas with him thats fer sure. Darn unlucky I figure and I don't need it rubbing off. As we that recently purchased Apex find out how wellour rifles shoot, we will gain a little better I idea of the likelihood of getting a 8 inch at 100 yards barrel.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

i hardly doubt all 4 of them were bad. i think it narrows down to that person not willing to try differnt powders and bullet combo's. Thats why i've stuck with pyrodex rs all these years, i dont need some higher price powder that comes out every year thats supposed to be better than the other and turns out it has a down fall that the other one didnt.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

All four of them could have been bad. Just because probabilities are low doesn't mean it can't happen. Give a large enough statistical sample, it will happen, provide a high enough percentage of Apex barrels are bad.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

Pglasgow

Chuck, Big 6X6, is not just a normal BP shooter. This guy has tons of experiance and is often singled out by companies to do testing. He is the administrator of the site, Lonewolf sold it to him. Cayugad is a moderator on the site also.

He has shot, tested, most of the rifles out there. I think between him and Underclocked they probably have shot them all...

The other thing remember he started out with two 45's and several companies had problems with 45 - wrong twist rate... the first 50 he got from BPI/CVA was not a performer either and he never shot the fourth.

I would re-confirm your statement pglasgow:
He is one gentleman - I have a lot faith in would also not question...

further:

Should be three - though not four...

Pglasgow - I am beginning to think that you must be a mathematician or a statistician as many numbers as you put out... and what's worse is I believe you understand them....

mike

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

Mike - I do understand them which is why I recognize that what happened to 6x6 can happen. It's this same understanding that allows me to recognize that his experience will not likely be mine, yours, or the next guys. Call me statistician, an awnry Scot, or a cantankorous Cherokee, just take your pick, I do like to understand the context of things, the likelihood of other things, and so on. If that rubs folks the wrong way, just realize, I don't mean anything personal by it.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

Frontier Gander, I apologize for not seling you the gun. I don't see why I should have when I could return it for the same price and not have to mess with shipping.

For the most part, I think I gave the rifle a fair chance. Any gun that is that inconsistent is not worth messing with. I did shoot 60 sabots through it. You can only take so much. I get fed up, I admit that.I tried AP powder as well as Pyrodex. The rifle didn't shoot the loads I liked well so I don't wanna screw with it. I tried swabbin each shot. If you remember,it never did shoot consistently.I got decent groups occasionally but it was always temporary. My TC doesn't have a problem with any load--my old one that is. I just bought the new Omega. I believe it is the last one I'll buy. I don't believe that the CVA's are horrible guns, I just think that they are picky and need much more work to find that right combo. I'm sure I could've eventually gotten itshooting fairly well. You're right, I didn't have enough patience or willpower to finish it up.

I am glad I didn't stick to that gun personally. I see the Omega and am glad I got it. It has several features I much prefer.

The trigger guard lever locks much tighter than the Apex. It doesn't open as easy but it'll have to break in eventually. The barrel and stock are basically the same as my old TC. The stock is much tougher and the whole gun is much more well built though. The less weight is nice compared to the Apex.The grip is perfectly suitable but the Apex's was a bit better. The sights on the Omega are a bit more to my taste. They are a bit easier to see than the ones on the Apex--they're bigger. The ramrod doesn't bend as easily as the one on the Apex--I know cause I have it on my old TC. I bent the Apex's ramrod once.

I am glad I chose to stick to the TC's. Why not--for 60 dollars extra? I see no reasonwhy I shouldn't have. Maybe I gave up too fast but I really have always wanted the Omega and am glad I got it now. I might as well get the one I want instead of getting it later. Good luck to all of you with the Apex. I hope it serves you well. I for one KNOW mine will now.

Ibought a good 40 sabots and will do some serious shooting tomorrow. I'll keep you posted with the results once again--if you're still interested. Thanks for helping me along guys. I know I made the right choice.

RE: Spanish junk??? Please help!!!!!
 

By the way guys. One point I should say is that I was shooting behind a windbreak. There was a line of bushes/trees stopping the wind. I just thought I'd throw that info in.