High powered ML load
12-31-2006, 11:28 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
High powered ML load
A few years ago, I finally found a very flat ML load with 130gr 777 ffg and 250gr Barnes expander with alot of work. I wanted less than 2MOA performance and found it. Well, I planned on only using it in the swamps where my shots can be easily 120yards. But I like it for all shots. I shot a doe yesterday at 30 yards and it was dead before it hit the ground. Exit hole was big as a golf ball.I blew outthe heart and saw blood blowing out the bottom.Found the slug and petals were bent all the way back. I have yet to see such a devastating load.
Sure, its not needed, killed dozens with my XTP and 95gr pyrodex, and 90gr goex and 350gr maxihunter, but sure is fun to see the terminal performance of such a high powered load.
Sure, its not needed, killed dozens with my XTP and 95gr pyrodex, and 90gr goex and 350gr maxihunter, but sure is fun to see the terminal performance of such a high powered load.
12-31-2006, 12:01 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: High powered ML load
bigcountry
I get the same performance from the Nosler's I shoot, but I never been able to recovera bullet from an animal - so can tell you about the expansion. I can tell you that when you open the animal and the chest cavity is nothing but red jello - the bullet did something very devastating on the way through.
Along with the Barnes - I just wish the Nosler were more affordable for the shooting I do. Even with expense factored in I will continue to use them for a hunting round for the foreseeable future, but the Speer Gold Dots are certainly working their way in.... and another bullet that I am really leaning to because of the great reports is the 200 grain XTP, just can not use it in Idaho during ML season.
I get the same performance from the Nosler's I shoot, but I never been able to recovera bullet from an animal - so can tell you about the expansion. I can tell you that when you open the animal and the chest cavity is nothing but red jello - the bullet did something very devastating on the way through.
Along with the Barnes - I just wish the Nosler were more affordable for the shooting I do. Even with expense factored in I will continue to use them for a hunting round for the foreseeable future, but the Speer Gold Dots are certainly working their way in.... and another bullet that I am really leaning to because of the great reports is the 200 grain XTP, just can not use it in Idaho during ML season.
12-31-2006, 04:09 PM
#3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,127
RE: High powered ML load
Mark - I agree 100%. The Barnes Expander MZ is still the most lethal bullet I have ever fired; and performs superbly on elk from point blank out to 211 yards (farthest shot taken so far). Between me and my three hunting companions, we have taken nine elk with this bullet. The furthest one has been able to go after being hit is 20 feet. Most dropped right there.
The big difference between it and the famous Noslers seems to be the balance of expansion and penetration. The Barnes makes a bigger hole and is generally found just under the hide. Knocks 'em down like a .300 Winchester! I had to use a Harvester sabot to get them to seat in my T/C rifles.
Having said that, I have been playing around with other bullets that are a little less costly to shoot. The 250 Shockwave shoots very well and has adequate terminal performance on the three animals taken so far. I'm also interested in Sabotloader's testing of the Speer Gold Dots as an inexpensive alternative to the Expander.
The big difference between it and the famous Noslers seems to be the balance of expansion and penetration. The Barnes makes a bigger hole and is generally found just under the hide. Knocks 'em down like a .300 Winchester! I had to use a Harvester sabot to get them to seat in my T/C rifles.
Having said that, I have been playing around with other bullets that are a little less costly to shoot. The 250 Shockwave shoots very well and has adequate terminal performance on the three animals taken so far. I'm also interested in Sabotloader's testing of the Speer Gold Dots as an inexpensive alternative to the Expander.
12-31-2006, 04:28 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: High powered ML load
Roskoe
One of my hunting partners and I have this Nosler/Barnes conversation everytime we hunt together... He like Barnes - I like Nosler...
The one thing that I might relate is that I really do not know what the expansion of the Nosler bullet might be after passing through and animal, because in all of these years hunting with Noslers - I have never recovered one from an animal... I shoot 200 grain Semi Round Nose (still have 2 boxes of these old beasts - can not even buy them anymore)Noslers in the 300 WM, 130 grain Noslers in the 270 and the two different Noslers in ML and like I have said in all these years from 10 yards to 230 yards I have never found a bullet - and it is not like I haven't tried.
I can recover one if I shoot it into a dirt bank - but I do not think that is really like shooting an animal.
One of my hunting partners and I have this Nosler/Barnes conversation everytime we hunt together... He like Barnes - I like Nosler...
The one thing that I might relate is that I really do not know what the expansion of the Nosler bullet might be after passing through and animal, because in all of these years hunting with Noslers - I have never recovered one from an animal... I shoot 200 grain Semi Round Nose (still have 2 boxes of these old beasts - can not even buy them anymore)Noslers in the 300 WM, 130 grain Noslers in the 270 and the two different Noslers in ML and like I have said in all these years from 10 yards to 230 yards I have never found a bullet - and it is not like I haven't tried.
I can recover one if I shoot it into a dirt bank - but I do not think that is really like shooting an animal.
12-31-2006, 04:51 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: High powered ML load
Granting all thats been said nobody mentioned the 200gr Shock Wave, I have only taken one animal with them I used my Omega and shot a boar from end to end with an impressive exit hole and dropped him on the spot since the bullet exited travling all most parrel to the ground there was no hope of recovering it. But I do believe that at 2500 fps that 40 cal. bullet is very flat shooting and hard hitting. Lee
12-31-2006, 05:20 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: High powered ML load
lemoyne
I know, I know, that 200 grain XTP is sitting in the back of my mind - I have shot it a paper short range - long range - and in-between ranges and it really shoots great.... Why it stays together I can not figure out.. Why it is soeffective I can only relate to velocity - but it should come apart...
Then the last straw for me Idaho in her wisdom says the smallest bullet we can use is a .428 during ML season...
I know, I know, that 200 grain XTP is sitting in the back of my mind - I have shot it a paper short range - long range - and in-between ranges and it really shoots great.... Why it stays together I can not figure out.. Why it is soeffective I can only relate to velocity - but it should come apart...
Then the last straw for me Idaho in her wisdom says the smallest bullet we can use is a .428 during ML season...
12-31-2006, 06:09 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: High powered ML load
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
lemoyne
I know, I know, that 200 grain XTP is sitting in the back of my mind - I have shot it a paper short range - long range - and in-between ranges and it really shoots great.... Why it stays together I can not figure out.. Why it is soeffective I can only relate to velocity - but it should come apart...
Then the last straw for me Idaho in her wisdom says the smallest bullet we can use is a .428 during ML season...
lemoyne
I know, I know, that 200 grain XTP is sitting in the back of my mind - I have shot it a paper short range - long range - and in-between ranges and it really shoots great.... Why it stays together I can not figure out.. Why it is soeffective I can only relate to velocity - but it should come apart...
Then the last straw for me Idaho in her wisdom says the smallest bullet we can use is a .428 during ML season...
12-31-2006, 06:11 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: High powered ML load
ORIGINAL: Roskoe
Mark - I agree 100%. The Barnes Expander MZ is still the most lethal bullet I have ever fired; and performs superbly on elk from point blank out to 211 yards (farthest shot taken so far). Between me and my three hunting companions, we have taken nine elk with this bullet. The furthest one has been able to go after being hit is 20 feet. Most dropped right there.
The big difference between it and the famous Noslers seems to be the balance of expansion and penetration. The Barnes makes a bigger hole and is generally found just under the hide. Knocks 'em down like a .300 Winchester! I had to use a Harvester sabot to get them to seat in my T/C rifles.
Having said that, I have been playing around with other bullets that are a little less costly to shoot. The 250 Shockwave shoots very well and has adequate terminal performance on the three animals taken so far. I'm also interested in Sabotloader's testing of the Speer Gold Dots as an inexpensive alternative to the Expander.
Mark - I agree 100%. The Barnes Expander MZ is still the most lethal bullet I have ever fired; and performs superbly on elk from point blank out to 211 yards (farthest shot taken so far). Between me and my three hunting companions, we have taken nine elk with this bullet. The furthest one has been able to go after being hit is 20 feet. Most dropped right there.
The big difference between it and the famous Noslers seems to be the balance of expansion and penetration. The Barnes makes a bigger hole and is generally found just under the hide. Knocks 'em down like a .300 Winchester! I had to use a Harvester sabot to get them to seat in my T/C rifles.
Having said that, I have been playing around with other bullets that are a little less costly to shoot. The 250 Shockwave shoots very well and has adequate terminal performance on the three animals taken so far. I'm also interested in Sabotloader's testing of the Speer Gold Dots as an inexpensive alternative to the Expander.
12-31-2006, 06:53 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location:
Posts: 3,246
RE: High powered ML load
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
A few years ago, I finally found a very flat ML load with 130gr 777 ffg and 250gr Barnes expander with alot of work. I wanted less than 2MOA performance and found it. Well, I planned on only using it in the swamps where my shots can be easily 120yards. But I like it for all shots. I shot a doe yesterday at 30 yards and it was dead before it hit the ground. Exit hole was big as a golf ball.I blew outthe heart and saw blood blowing out the bottom.Found the slug and petals were bent all the way back. I have yet to see such a devastating load.
Sure, its not needed, killed dozens with my XTP and 95gr pyrodex, and 90gr goex and 350gr maxihunter, but sure is fun to see the terminal performance of such a high powered load.
A few years ago, I finally found a very flat ML load with 130gr 777 ffg and 250gr Barnes expander with alot of work. I wanted less than 2MOA performance and found it. Well, I planned on only using it in the swamps where my shots can be easily 120yards. But I like it for all shots. I shot a doe yesterday at 30 yards and it was dead before it hit the ground. Exit hole was big as a golf ball.I blew outthe heart and saw blood blowing out the bottom.Found the slug and petals were bent all the way back. I have yet to see such a devastating load.
Sure, its not needed, killed dozens with my XTP and 95gr pyrodex, and 90gr goex and 350gr maxihunter, but sure is fun to see the terminal performance of such a high powered load.
Chap Gleason VA
12-31-2006, 07:05 PM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: High powered ML load
bigcountry
Outstanding...
I did not say this, and I am not trying to one up you...and I do not have the research to back it up, but Big 6x6 on Modern Muzzleloaders as often stated that the Nosler has the widest operating velocities of all the bullets and I know he has down the research...
You know I think how many times I have had this same discussion with one of my hunting partners, who like you is a die-hard Barnes shooter.
I have some 45 cal 300 grain Barnes that I was once going to use in my Remingtons, but I could never get them down the barrel so there they sit in the box in the gun cabinet - unused... Today I would not hesitate using them on Elk because I know they are good bullets and I know I have sabots that I can use them with, but when it comes to crunch time if there is a Nosler here I am going to use it first.
So Ted and I have agreed to disagree... (but the nosler is a better bullet and easier to find)
mike
What I like about the expander is I can push that thing as fast as I want, and I don't worry about it falling apart, or I can push it at 1400fps and don't worry about it not expanding.
I did not say this, and I am not trying to one up you...and I do not have the research to back it up, but Big 6x6 on Modern Muzzleloaders as often stated that the Nosler has the widest operating velocities of all the bullets and I know he has down the research...
You know I think how many times I have had this same discussion with one of my hunting partners, who like you is a die-hard Barnes shooter.
I have some 45 cal 300 grain Barnes that I was once going to use in my Remingtons, but I could never get them down the barrel so there they sit in the box in the gun cabinet - unused... Today I would not hesitate using them on Elk because I know they are good bullets and I know I have sabots that I can use them with, but when it comes to crunch time if there is a Nosler here I am going to use it first.
So Ted and I have agreed to disagree... (but the nosler is a better bullet and easier to find)
mike