nstrut

Well, after much research and thinking about and shouldering several guns, I believe I'm about to settle on a muzzleloader, finally.

The 2007 Savage 10ML-II SS/LAM Thumbhole Edition.




It lists for $630 and includes Priority Shipping.

Now, I have read all the Pro's about this gun and going smokeless, etc.
What I am looking for are the negatives now. I'm not speaking of debating which is better, smokeless or traditional. That isa whole different topic I'd rather not get into.

What I want to hear are the problems you guys have heard with going smokeless. Pound me with the negatives and talk me out of this purchase if you have to. This is the info. I need to have. I want to make sure I'm making the correct choice.

Personally, why I am so serious about making this choice the right one is because this is the only ML I plan to purchase...ever. I am a bowhunter, make no bones about it. However, losing hunting time due to gun seasons and seeing MANY quality bucks during this time, I've decided I needed to expand my horizons and buy a ML. My plan is to get really good with this one gun, until it almost an extension of myself. I want it to feel exactly like my bow and have extreme confidence in it. This will take hours upon hours of practice, which is part of what I enjoy most. Twenty years from now, I want to pick up this gun and think how technology will have passed me by, but just how good I am with the old thing.

Sorry for the long post, but there is no better place to ask opinions than on this board.

So let me have it, good choice or bad. Give me you opinion!

Thanks guys!

NSTRUT

cayugad

As long as it is legal in your State, I think that is a beautiful rifle and an excellent choice. Be advised though, if you travel to other States in the future, there might be restrictions on smokeless powder. Although my understanding is those rifles shoot Triple Se7en and some of the other powders equally well. Very nice looking rifle.

pipecrew

I don't know much about smokeless muzzleloaders. I have a friend that has Savage 10ML-II. He likes it a lot. I think theymight be a little heavy, but I personally have never handled one. You have picked out a sweet looking rifle. I like the lamiate stocks with S/S. Where did you get that price from? Good luck with it.

Mike

nstrut

Pipecrew,

Here is a link to the gun and pricing info.

http://www.randywakeman.com/NewSavage10ML-IIModelfor2007.htm

steelerzzz

That is some serious eye candy!!

nstrut

Well...steelerzzz....it was supposed to be money for me to go to the Super Bowl to watch our boys repeat this year. I was in Detroit last year and it was the most fun I've ever had in my life. Since it doesn't seem likely we'll be there, I might as well buy something nice to make myself fel better, right?

McNair may be out this weekend. I'll take Boller any day. We're still alive and that's all that counts. That's for another mesage board though.

You from PA?

grizzly 2

`The Savage is probably a very good choice. Might have done it myself if I was willing to pay the price. My only negative would be the thumbhole stock. I am just not comfortable with them. Anyone is welcome to correct my thoughts on them, but I think they are great for alot of target work, or in hunting, for those slow deliberate shots. I never can seem to find a comfortable way to carry one by the grip. I like a thin grip, like on a fast pointing 20 guage double, but realize that's not very common among ml's. With our heavy barrels, I would think we would want a nice grip to hang onto when say, at port arms, or just waiting on stand. I just can't find a comfortable way to carry a thumb hole.

My guess is you will really like the Savage.

steelerzzz

Yeah ..I'm from Pa. I think that the ratbirds are in for a whoopin no matter who the QB is!! Good luck with that Savage...I think your going to love it. Make sure you keep us posted... I'm probably going to ditch my Omega for a 10mlII next year.

nstrut

I grew up in SW PA.

I'm just having a hard time now deciding which scope to buy for it. I like the new Nikon Omega, but I'm not sure if the ballistic circles would hold true for all muzzleloaders and loads other than the Omega it was developed for.

I like the new B&C reticle from Leupold, but that may just be overkill since it goes out to 500+ yards.

Natchezss has some good deals on Weaver scopes. I have to do some more research on them, but they look good.

Also, Vortex Optics will soon be coming out with some scopes. Their binos are second to none in their value for the money. The scopes may be just as good.

Any more scope recommendations would be great! Thanks!

skeeter 7MM

After playing with many Savages and wanting something new I deceided on the 10II this spring in lieu of an encore. Why simply something different. I have logged well over 1000 shots behind savage ml's shooting both subs and smokeless powder, they are shooters for either, equal to anything available today with regards to accuracy and handling hot loads.

As far as smokeless goes the only disadvantageI can think of is in measuring of powder and knowing what powders are best for the likes of the 10II. If versed in such skip this paragraph!! (charge measuring) is not based on Volume(like other ML's)but ratherweight in grs, the same as reloading. You will require a powder scale to measure your loads. Scales are personal but I believe a beam scale is about as simple and fool proof as it gets for a new loader. Something like a 505 RCBS, etc will be all you'll require to measure loads safely/accurately for the savage. (Being your an avid bow hunter you may already own one for weighing broadheads, etc). Digitals seem good but are touchy and I wouldn't suggest such for a new loader. You'll also require a powder trickler (this is what you'll use for throwing the charge - despensing the powder into the pan on the beam scale to be weighed). The only other thing is a powder funnel and something to hold your pre-measured powder (some use plastic speed loader, shell casings, etc. I use 2 dram plastic screw top vials - available on ebay). The next is understanding where the likes of the Savage performs in the powder chart spectrum, though this is really moot if you plan to just stick with the suggested smokeless loads in the Savage manual. Something I suggest until you get familar with it. These powders are: AA 5744, IMR 4759SR & N110. If you've done some digging you'll find many other powders working with the savage as well but they are not "reccomended" by savage yet, meaning these powder listed have been tested in the 10II and are deemed appropriate/ safe.

Quirks with the savage(negatives):
Ventliner needs to be replaced 50-200 shots depending on who's you use(Savageand a few aftermarkets availablethru the net)and powder charge. The ventliner is a small allen head screw with a hole tappedthat is on the base of the breech plug and rests against the powder. It basically is where the ignition flame from your primer pass through to ignite the powder and send your projectile down range. These are not hugely expensive but something you must monitor and check the orfice(hole) regularily when cleaning. If the hole gets to large the accuracy goes south and often your poi will jump vertically.

Carbon Build up in the breech plug. The manual explains what is required for breech care and removing carbon build up. It isn't a big deal but it does require attention when cleaning.

Removal of the breech plug. The design of the 10II requires you to loosen the rear action screw to remove the bolt(rear screw acts as a bolt stop when cycling)and use the factory tool to take out the breech plug for cleaning and ventliner replacement. In a stock rifle which is unbedded this can cause a shift in POI. I state CAN, I know some that do and some that don't so this is just a warning. Solutions A:bed and add a 3rd pillar so the rear action screw really only acts as nothing more than the bolt stop. Or Bbuy an aftermarket tool called the Savage Ez-Tool which allows you to remove the breech plug without loosening the action. (I have an ez tool and it works very well).

Cool down period. When shooting smokeless powder it is imperative to allow the barrel to cool down before loading and shooting. This is really only a range worry but I found 10 minutes upto 70 degrees and 15-20 minutes in higher temp/humdity was best to keep the fliers at bay.I must say the fliers I experienced were nothing I would miss an animal at if requiring a fast follow up but they did make the group open up. I go to the range to shoot groups so I just adopted the best practice to obtain results

Weight they are bit heavy. Snythetic stock is a bit barrel fat(front heavy), laminate is better balanced but also an additional lb heavier. For toting all day you'll want a sling, sitting no problem.

Powder/sabot/primer trial and error are part of every ML and no exception with the savage. Mine was very likable to powders and bullets i tried though it has a preference for primers and slightly tighter bore so I found certain sabot were more consistent in my rifle.

I shot 3 deer with it this fall 97 -212 yards all were pass thrus with great wound channels and less than 50 yards covered after the shot combined. I chose aclose tostandard load of 43.5gr 4759/250sst/HPH 24 sabot/209W for hunting, even though I played with many more stout non suggested loads. My load is averaging 2365fps MV-3/4" groups at 100 and 2" at 200.

10II is a well built ML, shoots well and if you can use smokeless an excellent choice. All ML's have quirks its the nature of the beast so to speak. The AccuTrigger is probably the best trigger on a production ML, especially for a new shooter as it can be safely reduced on your own. I think your choice of a laminate stock is a good one, I wish I would have bought one but couldn't get one up here (and still can't!![:@]). The thumbhole is personal but I know many who really enjoy them. SS barrel is a good option if you may ever use subs, plus it looks very nice on the lam stock!

All in all I am very pleased with 10II and would suggest it to anyone looking for a ML that can shoot both smokeless and subs.

Good Luck

For more info on savage and smokeless try dougs message board a wealth of info for you to review.