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Best Group U saw

Old 12-12-2006, 04:49 PM
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Default Best Group U saw

I always read of these great groups guys aledge shooting at 100 and 200 yards. However, I rarely see these on the range even with centerfire. rilfes. You see so many claims of MOA groups.I have to wonder how many MOA capable ML's are really out there.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:57 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

The real question is not what is the best group you have ever shot, but what is the average of the best groups you shoot. What I am getting at is I have shot a near one hole group ONCE at 100 yards. It was a real shock to shoot something like that. But I repeat, I did it ONCE.

Now if you take my average 100 yard group they would vary with the rifle I use and the sighting system I am using. I have a couple real good shooting rifles without a doubt not one one of them is a 1" consistent group. My problem is I always seem to get a flier, and I like to shoot five shot groups when I measure a group. My best group was a three shot group because when I saw it, I knew if I pushed my luck, I'd of thrown one..
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

Heres a target i shot a few weeks before hunting season. I have them marked so hopefully you can make out what it says. The group 8-9 shots was fired with only 40 grains powder and round ball. HA the very bottom hole i wanted to see what it was like with 20 grains @ 50 yards. And the 2 top holes are with my hunting load, 110 grains 3f blackpowder and patched round ball. Best groups i got so far is 1 1/2" @ 100 yards with an average between 2- 2 1/2" @ 100yards. Very accurate flintlock and fast ignition. Just have to practice and work up loads that work for you. My rabbit load is 40 grains, taken alot of rabbits in the short time ive owned the rifle.

And below is another target i was shooting with 80 grains powder @ 50 yards. Just to show that after months of practicing and working up different loads, you can find what works best.
And below is my best pattern yet at 100 yards with that one stinkin higher shot due to a hang fire. The two lowest shots were with 80 grains @ 100 yards. I can bring it up 2 1/2" higher with using a felt wad.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

Tracker12


Here is a 120 yard target - maybe not a MOA but I was pleased... It was one of those good days off bench and bags...


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Old 12-12-2006, 06:43 PM
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When I sight my rifles in, I want the best group possible. Also because of the environment I hunt, I often sight in for a much closer distance then say Sabotloader or some of the people that hunt large open fields. That is only understandable. I also know my White Rifle always throws the first shot on a clean barrel which is why I hunt on a fowled barrel. I'm not taking chances when I only have that one shot. But I also know that when the rifle is fowled and loaded properly I can place my shots which extreme accuracy. This group on a dirty barrel I consider very acceptable at 70 yards.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:59 PM
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cayugad

Gosh! them White's shoot good - what a great target - but them are awful big holes in the paper!!! - should otta put a Whitetail down in a hurry...
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

I'm with cayugad.

Tracker if you shoot 100 shots at a target at a range the sights zeroed foryou'll find a dense concentration in a ring aroundthe point of aim. They will thin down as the distance from point of aim increases. If you log on a graph the number of shots which miss 0" to 1/2 ", then the number of shots which miss 1/2" to 1", then the number shots which miss 1" to 1.5", and so on, , , then you will get a curve which looks kind of bell like.

Then if you divide each plot point by the number of shot in the sample, you will get a probability curve. Lets say10 shots are 0" to 1/2", 10 divided by 100 is .10 which reflects a 10% probability that any given shot will be within 1/2" of the point of aim.So the probabilityto shoot a sub-MOA one shot group is 10%, a sub MOA two shot group is 1%, a sub MOA 3 shot group is .1 %, a sub MOA 4 shot group is .01% (1 out 10,000 attempts).

Obviously the more concentrated your distribution of probabilities, the more likely it is that you will achieve a sub MOA group. The thing to remember is this, "EVERY SHOT IS A MISS", from the point of aim. This is because the probability of the center of the bullet striking the point of aim is almost ZERO!

Who needs a sub MOA at 100 yard anyway if the game is 100 yards away. Lets say your average group is 4 times worse than that (4 MOA). What does that mean? It means its unlikely to miss your point of aim by more than 2 inches.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

ORIGINAL: sabotloader

cayugad

Gosh! them White's shoot good - what a great target - but them are awful big holes in the paper!!! - should otta put a Whitetail down in a hurry...
You have no idea how hard I tried this deer season to spot a deer so I could see how well that White would put one down. I hunted hard hoping for just one shot. I was positive that the 500 grain conical would plant one, but I wanted to see how fast it would plant one. For some reason the deer were really scattered this year, and talking to most of the locals, many of them settled for a small doe or two.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

cayugad

We were forunate here in that we got 12 to 14" of snow and it got cold - that really got them moving around almost all day... Our rule is no whitetails during elk season unless they are one of the big variety - thenduring the bulk of the regular deer season we are still looking for that big one, because we have a 7 day ML season at the end of the regular season - does only.... Well, the last Friday of the regular season I was telling my hunting partner - it is harvest day - does not matter - doe or buck.... To make a long story shorter with all the movement going on I finally got the shot with the Omega - next year it will be with the White and that fan-dangled new stock Doc sent me... I hoping the deer will be so taken back by the stock they won't notice me.... then they will hear the White speak...


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Old 12-12-2006, 09:03 PM
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Default RE: Best Group U saw

Cayugad,

I'd sure like to group one of my muzzieslike that. Awesome. When I scope the Apex, maybe I be able to.

Of interest, one can reverse the process of probability prediction. Trust me, you will like this. I count 5 shots with a maximum miss 1/2". This would be a 5 shot groupwith an MOA of about 1.5 . We can calculate the MINIMUM PROBABILITY that you will miss by no greater than 1/2 your point of aim at 70 yards. Lets say of 10 attempts you were capable of doing the above6 times. This sample gives the probability at .60 (60%).

Where the probability of less than 1/2" miss at 70 is P_70 the following equation applies

.60 = P_70^5 reducing to

P_70 = .60 ^ (1/5) = .903 (90.3 %)

If you only can do the 1.5 MOA 60 % of the time, you have a 90% probability of doing it on any given shot.

What if you can group 1.5 MOA 90 % of the time with a 5 shot group?

Then 98 times out of 100 you will be within 1/2" of point of aim at 70 yards. It might not be MOA but were I a deer, I wouldn't like my chances if my life depended on you missing by 3/4". Great shooting.






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