halcon

1shot Oregon has thier muzzleloaders restricted to no centerfire,no pellets ,loose powder only ,iron or peep only,round ball or conical with cloth or felt patches only .Its been that way for sometime now . They call it a primitive hunt and don't allow all the new technology .

Rob in VT

Whether it be in-line or flint, sabot or round ball, pellets or loose powder, you still need to keep your powder dry and you only have one shot. I see nothing wrong with making smokepoles more accurate and reliable. After all, what's the end result . . . a quicker and cleaner kill. In my book, that's what we all should strive for.

. . . Rob

1SHOT_1KILL

Halcon,
I guess that is why I had a phone call from a hunter from OR about 2 years or so ago, that was feed up with inefficient "primitve" muzzleloaders. He shot and hit 4 different bull elk with his "primitve" muzzleloader, at well under 100yds each. And he failed to find a single one, eventhough all 4 were hit and all 4 left a blood trail. He wanted to buy one of my custom built smokeless muzzleloader, but I saved him about $3,000, and told him to buy a Savage 10ML.

That is 4 bull elk out of the herd in a single season, by a single hunter. Now would you care to multiply that by 10-15% of the total number of muzzleloader hunters in your state? That would be an approximate representation of the number big game animals wounded, crippled, and lost by either the an inexperienced hunter, a low powered inefficient "primitive" muzzleloader, and/or a combination of both. I think the numbers would almost make you sick to your stomach. You can call it "primitive" all you want, but I call it a darn shame.

If you noticed I said nothing of one these type muzzleloaders in the hands of an experienced and disciplined hunter. In this case a "primitve" muzzleloader, may certainly be adaquate for the job. But are you going to force a novice muzzleloader hunter to play by your rules and standards? Would it not make much more sense to let a novice muzzleloader hunter, have the option to hunt with an in-line or sidelock, open fiber optic sights or low powered fixed scoped 1 or 2x, pellets or loose, and saboted bullets or conicals, in whatever combination that works best, so that he may gain experience and knowledge about muzzleloading. Or are you just going to hand him a flocklock, a powder horn, a hand full of patches and round balls, and throw him to the wolves, to figure it out on his own? If that is the case, the game animals are going to pay a very high price, indeed.

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Herman_and_bill

a hunter who leaves four cripples has more than an equipment problem, he's just plain ignorant. It take a few days at the range to find out how any gun will shoot, wheather a flint or a new 06 and having a modern inline don't excuse anybody from learning its limitations just as with a flint.

canyonman

Hey 1 shot, why don't you give us Or. muzzleloaders the name of this wayward soul, just so we could "edikate" him on the proper way to kill an elk. We would'nt be mean or nothin, oh our methods may be a little strict, but by the time we got done learnin" him proper he would think twice before he pulled the trigger and thats for sure!!!

BS

Hey 1SHOT,
4 out of 4 elk lost sounds like a bad shot to me. If you hid them in the foot they will bleed. Shoot them in the middle of the middle with a round ball with a heavy charge and you will have one dead elk. An elk with a hole thru both lungs won't go far. I like big guns with big bullets leave big holes. I am building a .72 cal. round ball shooter for my next elk hunt. 560 grain RB with 225 grains of 2F should pack a pretty good thump. Idaho or Utah is going to a "Traditional Season" and I think more states will follow. That will be OK with me, that way I will be hunting PRIME TIME with my patched round ball and you will be in rifle season. Just wait and see........Bruce

charlie brown

Here in NV, you can use pretty much any muzzleloader/projectile/powder combination that you want. You can only have open sights during a muzzleloader only hunt, but during an any legal weapon hunt, you can have a scope. I don't think many people in this state can hit as far as the muzzleloader will shoot with just open sights, so there shouldn't be any problems there. I don't think that NV will change its ML laws any time soon.

I am planning to apply for a cow elk muzzleloader tag this year, and I am becoming comfortable with my ML. The sights are not adjustable, so I will be putting a set of tru-glos on. It is a CVA Bobcat .50 percussion ignition. I have looked a balistics tables and have found that with 90 grains of 2f equivalent pyrodex and a 245 gr. Buffalo Ball et, this combination will have enough power that is needed to kill an elk than I will be able to effectively shoot. I will know what my limitations are, and I will settle for nothing else.

I think that the major problem with these reports of lost animals is people that don't practice and exceed their own limitations. I think that there should be laws limiting ML firearms only to a certain extent, so that people will still be able to make a quick, clean kill on an animal. That is the most important part of it all. Face it, the people of today are nothing compared to the early explorers, where they HAD to make a shot to survive, some people don't think about that and just shoot.

PABuck_HNTR

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>So do you think the new technologies are just steering us towards restrictions?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

It seems that with any new technologies we get more restrictions, whether it be firearms or automobiles.

wouldchuck

Drache,

I live in southern Minnesota. We also are not allowed to use rifles down here. We can in the northern third of the state. Years ago it was explained to me that agricultual land, being so open, does not have the tree density to keep an errent shot from traveling too far. It made sense then. Not so sure anymore.

I posted a question pertaining to this subject on the Minnesota DNR site. It was explained quite nicely that the in-line muzzle-loader, being that he has one shot to drop the deer, is going to be alot more careful about where he is going to place that shot. Where, with even a bolt action CF rifle, there could be a perpensity to spray a few shots at a deer before a good shot could have been obtained.